4-way stop at Bell's Mill - bad idea?
Philadelphia Mountain Biking Association - Forums
*
 
Pages: [1]
« previous next »
  Print  
Author Topic: 4-way stop at Bell's Mill - bad idea?  (Read 604 times)
RepoMan
Platinum Member
Amateur
****
Posts: 76



View Profile WWW Email
« on: May 04, 2008, 03:21:50 PM »
After weeks of passing through the intersection of Forbidden and Bell's Mill with the new stop signs for Forbidden traffic, I'm wondering if it didn't just make the intersection even more dangerous. Not many people on Forbidden seem to take any notice of the stop signs and if you do stop to wait your turn, people behind you (runners, bikers, walkers, whatever) will just keep going. It could lead to a situation where someone stops, the cars see the person stopping and think it's their turn (which, really, it is, now that it's a 4-way) and take off, then someone oblivious to the new setup will fly through and get creamed.

Personally, if it's clear there's no one behind me who's going to sail through the intersection and it doesn't look like anyone is coming from the other direction, I'll stop and wave a car through if they were there in the first place. If it's a free for all of runners, walkers, and bikes, I'll just make sure the cars are not going and I'll go through and get the hell away from that spot.

Thoughts?
Logged
fishnchips
Platinum Member
Addict
****
Posts: 654



View Profile Email
« Reply #1 on: May 04, 2008, 05:33:06 PM »
totally agree with you. big mistake. It should always be FD right of way, though of course when it's jammed there are problems. But the potential for error is greater making it a 4 way.

That bridge is so old I know some parents once complained about the school bus using it and instead they had to go all they way down to Walnut. But it is an arch bridge and has stood for 100+ years and will no doubt stand for 1000 more.

Problem is way to much traffic is coming over there, and you know if you've ridden across into oncoming traffic it's a bit frightening. I'm sure there's been plenty of incidents already, but I don't know of any injuries.

If you go up by Courtesy stables you'll see Cathedral Rd is a massive street, a two lane carriageway, that abruptly ends at the park. At one time they were going to build it right across as the replacement thoroughfare to Chestnut Hill, but certain snobs over in CH would have none of it. So instead we still have the Bell's Mill Gamble-With-Death experience. Just as well though, I like to keep everyone in CH out of my side too  Grin
Logged
Kelly
Lust4singletrack
The trail/ tool guy
PMBA Moderator
Jedi
*****
Posts: 1044


Energy is always flowing. Ride it.

tgunz75@aol.com
View Profile Email
« Reply #2 on: May 04, 2008, 09:10:51 PM »
Yea I third that. What a bad idea. Cars are already going too fast into that bottleneck of an intersection. It's very hazordous for park users.
Logged
Constantly improving the situation->
Tom Coyle
Fish
Platinum Member
Amateur
****
Posts: 61


Grab a brew. Don't cost nothin'.

sjharris252
View Profile Email
« Reply #3 on: May 08, 2008, 09:29:47 PM »
Stop Sign?  When was that put there?  I never even noticed it.. but think it's a bad idea as it will def. lead to more confusion and people double clutching it and not knowing who's turn it is to go...   For once Pedestrians and bikes have the right of way - that's the only place around I know thats true...   Were such a car focused society - I wonder who's idea it was to make the pedestrians stop?   Next thing you know they will get rid of the car stop sign and we'll be waiting... watch, you'll see.

We should lobby against this with the FPC
Logged
Just Pedal.
fishnchips
Platinum Member
Addict
****
Posts: 654



View Profile Email
« Reply #4 on: May 09, 2008, 12:37:51 AM »
Though I don't think there should be a stop sign I would say there should be a large sign on each FD side warning of the road crossing. There are joggers and bikers who cruise across without even looking, and having driven through it many times myself I have seen many users totally unaware of me.

It should still be FD right of way, but people should be prepared to look both ways and acknowledge drivers.
Logged
Kelly
Lust4singletrack
The trail/ tool guy
PMBA Moderator
Jedi
*****
Posts: 1044


Energy is always flowing. Ride it.

tgunz75@aol.com
View Profile Email
« Reply #5 on: May 09, 2008, 07:36:04 AM »
Yea this is a very very bad idea. We should try to do something against this. Maybe get the Bike Coalation involved as well.
Logged
Constantly improving the situation->
Tom Coyle
Rico
Platinum Member
Expert
****
Posts: 381


ricolaa1970 ricocpa
View Profile WWW Email
« Reply #6 on: May 09, 2008, 09:25:37 AM »
Quote from: fishnchips on May 09, 2008, 12:37:51 AM
It should still be FD right of way, but people should be prepared to look both ways and acknowledge drivers.

That is the most important thing.  People should have enough common sense to stop and look.  Both drivers and pedestrians (on foot or bike) should STOP AND LOOK before crossing.....a car will do a lot more damage to a human than a bike or person will do to a car.
Logged
You must let nothing deter you in your quest for ALL.....No, ALL!
Dmitri
Platinum Member
Addict
****
Posts: 774


dzorine
View Profile Email
« Reply #7 on: May 09, 2008, 11:43:59 AM »
I've been nearly run over at that intersection twice this winter... I always slow down and make sure that the car(s) are stopping too, and when at night I shine my HID head light straight onto the driver, to attract their attention to me.
Both times cars looked like they were coming to the stop just to suddenly proceed to speeding up again. How can anyone not notice an HID light shining straight into their eyes from about 20 feet away?!
Maybe they were pissed at me doing that and were deliberately trying to run me over? But both times when i yelled at them and they stopped, they looked very puzzled to discover someone nearly on top of the hood of their cars...

bad bad bad intersection! would be cool to have a pedestrian bridge over the road! no steps tho, gradual climb! :-)

dz
Logged
I crash therefore I am!
RepoMan
Platinum Member
Amateur
****
Posts: 76



View Profile WWW Email
« Reply #8 on: May 09, 2008, 12:05:28 PM »
In a perfect world, I'd like to see Bell's Mill just outright closed as it enters the park on both sides. Turn it into cul-de-sacs before it gets to Forbidden. All it really is is a shortcut and a convenience that people take way too much advantage of. Speed limit? What speed limit? It's "go as fast as you want and then slam on the brakes at Forbidden." Of course this is coming from someone who has also had his fair share of close calls with people running the stop signs there... or as Dmitri said, looking like they're stopping and then suddenly accelerating on through.

I know one girl who was hit on her bike there. Apparently the tire of the car was actually on top of her as she was lying pinned to the ground. Guy ran the stop sign, knocked her down, and then the tire ran right up on her leg. Amazingly she wasn't hurt badly.

In the end, as is painfully evident every day on the road, there are many drivers who are not going to do the safe and responsible thing so we have to be the ones to be aware and vigilant. They get a new scratch or dent, we get put in the hospital or worse.
Logged
Lust4singletrack
The trail/ tool guy
PMBA Moderator
Jedi
*****
Posts: 1044


Energy is always flowing. Ride it.

tgunz75@aol.com
View Profile Email
« Reply #9 on: May 09, 2008, 12:23:42 PM »
Let's build a ramp there and we can jump it!
Logged
Constantly improving the situation->
Tom Coyle
Dmitri
Platinum Member
Addict
****
Posts: 774


dzorine
View Profile Email
« Reply #10 on: May 09, 2008, 12:28:49 PM »
Now you did it. I can hear Jamie's jeep's tires screaching right now as he's peeling out to go down there to start building it!  Wink

dz
Logged
I crash therefore I am!
Pages: [1]
  Print  
« previous next »
 
Jump to:  

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.4 | SMF © 2006-2007, Simple Machines LLC
Joomla Bridge by JoomlaHacks.com 		Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!
© 2008 The Philadelphia Mountain Biking Association
Joomla! is Free Software released under the GNU/GPL License.