Rebirth of the Dos Niner! (Yes, a slight change to the topic title.)
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Author Topic: Rebirth of the Dos Niner! (Yes, a slight change to the topic title.)  (Read 2792 times)
Chuck U
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« Reply #30 on: April 01, 2008, 10:42:52 AM »
http://sheldonbrown.com/chains.html  !!

I'd be interested in you taking apart a link in the chain and seeing what the plates/bushings/pins look like.
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fishnchips
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« Reply #31 on: April 01, 2008, 12:17:20 PM »
It's a SRAM PC-1, and it's the only chain I've never broken. I break the geared bike chains all the time because of the lateral forces, but this chain did 800 miles, and the chainring was a lot older than that.

I am convinced the tensioner kept the drivetrain from failing a long time ago. However it was being worn it was doing so evenly.

I'll have to check it out. I guess I might have to start cleaning my bikes every now and then Tongue
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Chuck U
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« Reply #32 on: April 01, 2008, 12:57:11 PM »
Yeah, single speed with straight chainline and no dragging of the chain from sprocket to sprocket tends to not break chains.   And if you do, it's normally a sign of improper chain install or chain defect (rare).  However, a broken chain is not really a sign of chain wear.  Chain wear is from the pins, plates, bushings, and rollers wearing.  It causes the chain to effectively get longer which kills sprockets.  However, they will wear together as one, so they will work together until you change something.  Then they will mis-match, be loud as hell....and skip (although this is harder on a single speed).   The idea is to replace the chain after it gets to a certain wear to allow reuse and longer life of the sprockets. 

Or you can just run it forever and then replace everything.   Which is cheaper?  Depends on what components you use ($$).  Though stuff does run smother before it gets crazy wear like that.

The Sheldon link has a simple and accurate way to measure for chain wear with a ruler (at the bottom).....
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Dmitri
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« Reply #33 on: April 01, 2008, 01:05:01 PM »
Chuck is 100% right. Except I had broken master links on SRAM chains, just tearing the side plates into shreds, tho with master links there are large cutouts, so they are weaker.

And the ruler method doesn't work for the pin and roller wear. The center to center measurement of the pins doesn't change a lot (it takes a hell of an effort to literally stretch side plates) but the rollers wear out and effective distance inside changes.

There are simple and cheap checkers for that, like these:
http://www.jensonusa.com/store/product/TL605A00-Park+Cc-3+Chain+Checker.aspx
http://www.jensonusa.com/store/product/TL308A00-Progold+Chain+Gauge.aspx
http://www.jensonusa.com/store/product/TL401A05-Wippermann+Chain+Wear+Indicator.aspx
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fishnchips
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« Reply #34 on: April 01, 2008, 01:14:55 PM »
Funny DZ, Chuck is %100 right except for everything he was wrong about !  Grin

I'm assuming I can use my digital calipers to check too? Or is it not the same kind of thing? The calipers are just much more versatile tool for the money and I already have one: http://shop.ebay.com/?_from=R40&_npmv=3&_trksid=m38&_nkw=stainless+steel+digital+caliper&_nd1=See-All-Categories

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Kelly
Chuck U
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« Reply #35 on: April 01, 2008, 01:21:32 PM »
And here is where there is much disagrement....   Wink

The ruler method is excellent for pin/plate/bushing wear, but NOT roller wear.  However, many feel that chain checkers are garbage because roller wear is not as important, plus they exaggerate the measurement.  Because of this they measure many chains to be worn out LONG before they are.  Many times they will even measure new chains to be worn.

Chain wear is not stretching of the plates, it is largely pin/plate/bushing wear.  Yeah, the rollers wear too, but because they are pulled in the same direction from the cogs, it doesn't matter as much.

Another ruler method is to put an edge of a 12" ruler on the edge of a pin...measure over 12" and if that pin is peaking out half or more past the 12" mark...then its done.

 Grin
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Chuck U
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« Reply #36 on: April 01, 2008, 01:26:10 PM »
http://forums.roadbikereview.com/showthread.php?t=125344

see that for more.   I know roadies don't know what they are talking about!   Tongue
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Dmitri
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« Reply #37 on: April 01, 2008, 01:35:45 PM »
That's it! You're expelled! Bringing up roadie in here...  Tongue

 Wink

Pins, bushings, plates wear unevenly, resulting in the rollers to making even contact with all the teeth, rsulting with the load concentrating on fewer teeth, increasing the speed of wear.
Regardless of how you measure and what wears, in my personal experience, as soon as there is enough "play" in the system (look at the pictures on Sheldon's page) the wear will skyrocket.

I have a Kick Ass Alum 17t cog that I put on without replacing really worn chain and the cog was COMPLETELY dead in 3 rides (about 100 miles)...

 Cool

dz
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Chuck U
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« Reply #38 on: April 01, 2008, 01:50:03 PM »
I just wanted you guys to see that roadie keeps track of bushing wear with his calipers....   Grin  Wonder if he has a spread sheet....
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fishnchips
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« Reply #39 on: April 01, 2008, 02:25:57 PM »
Good News! (which may become fantastic news if it really happens)

Salsa says they are warranting the bike! I told them I wasn't the original owner and that I was using it as a SingleSpeed, but they say they'll still warranty it as long as I go to a Quality Bicycle Products, QBP dealer to get a RA number to return it!

anyone know of a Quality Bicycle Products, QBP dealer?

If I do get a replacement I will probably ask for the same bike again and use it strictly as a racing steed. Or if I get the guts to go with a hardtail I may ask them for the steel El Mariachi  or gear up a Momasita instead...
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Kelly
Chuck U
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« Reply #40 on: April 01, 2008, 02:31:36 PM »
That rocks.  I'm pretty sure most shops deal with QBP as they are a huge distributor.....
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Dmitri
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« Reply #41 on: April 01, 2008, 02:33:59 PM »
Eggzactary! QBP is a distributor to 90% of the shops.

I suggest to go thru our sponsors, REI (not sure if they use QBP or do their own purchasing), Bucks County Bicycle Company ( I know they are a little out of the way, but Scott is a great guy and stepped up big time to support us in last month), or Guys

Other than that, any shop should be able to help
« Last Edit: April 01, 2008, 02:36:08 PM by Dmitri » Logged
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fishnchips
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« Reply #42 on: April 01, 2008, 03:20:20 PM »
REI it is; thanks Karl!

I'm a bit confused because he says they'll warranty it, but also that I have to send it in where "they'll make a warranty decision", and at the end he says "do I want a replacement too". 

so I'm guessing is they might decide to re-weld it? Or is he saying, "do I want another one" thinking that perhaps I don't? Anyway, it's confusing.

I'll see if Karl can make the call for me and get the ball rolling before I fully quiz the Salsa dude.
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Kelly
Rico
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« Reply #43 on: April 01, 2008, 03:21:50 PM »
Quote from: fishnchips on April 01, 2008, 02:25:57 PM
Salsa says they are warranting the bike! I told them I wasn't the original owner and that I was using it as a SingleSpeed, but they say they'll still warranty it as long as I go to a Quality Bicycle Products, QBP dealer to get a RA number to return it!


TMI, brutha, TMI.......never give them too much information.  You're lucky that they are still going to replace under the warranty.  Some companies may want the original sales receipt, etc.

Great news, though Jess.  Hope you get the frame you want.
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Dmitri
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« Reply #44 on: April 01, 2008, 03:27:30 PM »
They do have to see and analyze the break for the decision whether to warrantee or not.
What he's asking if you want a bike while waiting for the decision.
The way it worked for me, they sent me a repalcement frame, but took my CC number and put "preliminary" charge on it for the price of the frame, sort of like they do when you use the CC for a deposite.
I shipped the broken frame back to them, and started riding the new one. Once they received the broken one and confirmed that it's warrantee replacement, the charge was removed from the CC.
But if they would've decided that it wasn't warrantable or there was a prorated warrantee, then appropriate charge would've been posted.

Sounds like that's what they are trying to do for you too.

dz

PS Better be upfront and honest. Glad you disclosed everything, Jess. Keeps the industry andcompanies more willing to work with us, customers, be more supporting and open to go extra mile, like in this case. I heard to omany stories of people abusing generous return/warrantee policies and turning companies bitter and ruining it for the rest of us.
« Last Edit: April 01, 2008, 03:29:10 PM by Dmitri » Logged
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fishnchips
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« Reply #45 on: April 01, 2008, 04:29:56 PM »
Yeah, no doubt, thanks for the info.

 I had to tell them the truth because that's what I do Grin. But really, I couldn't very well say I got it new when I have no evidence of that, and I had to tell them it was SS because the pictures I took I couldn't edit that out without taking the crank off, which I hadn't gotten to yet.

But I didn't tell them everything; I didn't tell them I'm 250 lbs! Wait, that's a lie.  I'm on a diet now, so 249 lbs  Tongue
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Kelly
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« Reply #46 on: April 01, 2008, 05:18:55 PM »
I'm not saying lie to them.  I am too honest as well, and would never try to scam a company to receive free merchandise.  I'm only saying, I might say anything unless they asked me.  Then I would have told them.   Grin
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dieselkarl
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« Reply #47 on: April 02, 2008, 07:17:30 PM »
You're a monster Jess.  There's no way to re-weld that in good faith.  I sure hope they hook you up too b/c I don't want to explain to my boss why there's a honking charge that we're stuck with.   The folks at Salsa are a good crew so I think this will work out for all of us.  Too bad they aren't going to be at this year's Kenda Tire fest in Mass. 

Karl
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fishnchips
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« Reply #48 on: April 02, 2008, 07:40:01 PM »
I know what you mean Rico. i just thought it was best to lay it out to them

and Karl, yes, that worries me too! what if they are just welding it? I'd never feel safe even if it was safe...

what charge would you be stuck with? Also, do you want me to cover shipping? I was actually hoping (or dreaming) that you'd get compensated by them for dealing with the return, or at least an "ata boy".
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Kelly
fishnchips
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« Reply #49 on: April 10, 2008, 02:29:43 PM »
 Grin Last night I went to REI and picked up the new fire orange Dos Niner! I wrote the guy from Salsa again and asked whether it was mine to keep. He hasn't gotten my bike in yet, but he said from the pictures he definitely thinks a warranty bike and therefore the new one is mine.  Grin

I don't plan to make it my daily Wiss bike, it'll be more of a  race machine. It sure looks awesome new, though not a color I'd pick on purpose! Here's a picture from their site:
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Kelly
Rico
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« Reply #50 on: April 10, 2008, 02:46:13 PM »
Congrats, Jess.

That is one sweet ride!   Grin
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bonkers
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« Reply #51 on: April 11, 2008, 09:10:16 PM »
Nice ride Jesse! That's only the second one of those I've seen! Which REI did you find that at? Marlton? 
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fishnchips
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« Reply #52 on: April 11, 2008, 11:32:56 PM »
Thanks people.

Rob, even though I bought it used Salsa approved it as a warranty and replaced it. Salsa stands behind their product so I have to give them solid props for that. Even used it's been a solid investment.

They haven't actually confirmed it as a warranty because they haven't got the bike back, but from my pictures they say it should be and sent me out the new one.

I had REI handle it all as they can do that with Salsa. Karl took care of it, made the calls etc. and they sent out the bike before they even received the broken one.

Karl can get a lot of specialty bikes for people though REI doesn't necessarily carry them on the floor. He's looking to expand their in-house offerings though; check out this thread.

I just built up the new frame today, 32x19, with most of my old stuff. I would like to race it on Sunday but I also want to ride it a bit just to make sure all is good... So far it feels just like the last one, except it's loud as hell!

I also got my geared bike rolling so hopefully that will be my primary bike now, and the Salsa I'll ride more sparingly.
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Kelly
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« Reply #53 on: April 12, 2008, 08:34:43 PM »
Quote from: fishnchips on April 10, 2008, 02:29:43 PM
I don't plan to make it my daily Wiss bike, it'll be more of a  race machine.

Huh? Why not just ride it?

Glad you're getting that sorted out, that rocks!

-p
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fishnchips
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« Reply #54 on: April 12, 2008, 11:45:56 PM »

[/quote]
Huh? Why not just ride it?
[/quote]

From the day I bought it I thought I might break it if I rode it all the time, and sure enough I did. I planned the to use the last one sparingly, but I loved to ride it, and meanwhile my geared bike needed work. So this time I'm just not going to ride it into the ground everyday. I just don't believe a 250lb guy can hammer SingleSpeed on a 4lb frame, day after day, no matter what it's made out of.

Also, I've broken two gravity droppers, couple of handlebars, and all three of the previous bikes I've owned, and I'm strictly an XC rider. The only bike I haven't broken is my geared Enduro, but I still break a suspension bolt on it at least once a month. (I'll be riding it more often now I've got it going again.)
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Kelly
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« Reply #55 on: April 13, 2008, 07:39:02 AM »
You brute!
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max
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