Trail conditions
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RepoMan
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« Reply #30 on: January 19, 2008, 02:26:04 PM »
1/19 Pics

Sunday should be great if it freezes. Some sections thawed today.
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RepoMan
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« Reply #31 on: January 20, 2008, 03:20:56 PM »
Trails were frozen pretty much everywhere except the usual suspects. This coming week should be great.

1/20 Pics
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Chuck U
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« Reply #32 on: January 20, 2008, 05:10:29 PM »
Demo 1 shows a lot of use from earlier in this week when it was soft.   All nicely frozen now, you could tell what tires everyone was using.
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Lust4singletrack
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« Reply #33 on: January 20, 2008, 05:31:38 PM »
1/20/2008 Frozen ground means some fast cornering. Good times. Tires stuck like velcro.
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Tom Coyle
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« Reply #34 on: January 20, 2008, 07:24:29 PM »
Velcro??....until you hit an ice patch when your back tire spun like a windmill! ....at least that what happened to me.....once.   Grin
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pahearn
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« Reply #35 on: January 22, 2008, 08:47:21 PM »
Just FYI as of 8:00p tonight the trails are frozen and dry and very fast, currently 35F. Tomorrow's supposed to be clear and high of 34-38F so it should be the same if the ground temp drops more tonight and it doesn't get too warm tomorrow (Wednesday 1/23).

-pete
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Lust4singletrack
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« Reply #36 on: January 22, 2008, 09:31:23 PM »
Wow thanks pete. I was afraid they would be a mess after todays rain. Good lookin out.
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Tom Coyle
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« Reply #37 on: January 22, 2008, 10:54:07 PM »
Thanks for the info.  Was wondering how it was. I rode Monday and they were SOLID as a rock.

Thursday and Friday look good as highs will be under 30F.   I'm gonna try to make the Thursday night ride at VG.

 
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« Reply #38 on: January 27, 2008, 04:06:31 PM »
A little late for the weekend, but some pics:

Thumbs-up, way up.

Frozen solid  with a tiny bit of thawing in a couple places today.

Great conditions!
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chunter
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« Reply #39 on: January 28, 2008, 01:45:09 PM »
Looking good Repo.
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pahearn
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« Reply #40 on: February 05, 2008, 11:31:58 AM »
FYI as of 10:00a the trails are overall messy. I biked to work today and rode the trails from the southwestern end up to around the Janette Street entrance, and they've been utterly decimated by people riding them in the past few days. Significant widening is starting to occur in areas. I dropped down to Forbidden for the rest of the way, and from there you can see how saturated the earth is (read: Forbidden Drive is soaked).

-pete
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Dmitri
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« Reply #41 on: February 05, 2008, 11:38:37 AM »
Gawd Damn it!

I think it's time to start patrolling the trails on the days like these.
We need to break this attitude :
"Oh it's warm and comfortable for me, I must ride, hell or hihg water! Forget everyone else and what I'm doing to the trails, it's all about me, I want to ride in warm temps! Me! Me! Me!"

 Angry

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Chuck U
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« Reply #42 on: February 05, 2008, 11:41:18 AM »
Ugg.  Sounds like we might need a wet trail rider taser system.  Equip it with video then post the results to a page with a ton of google adds = pmba profit.   Cheesy

Seriously though, with the rain expected tonight/tomorrow and then again this weekend, it might be a while till it's good to go again.  If that end is messed up, I hate to see what demo 1 looks like.
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pahearn
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« Reply #43 on: February 05, 2008, 11:47:19 AM »
Yeah sorry for the bad news. I should emphasize that it's no worse than it gets every single year during the rainy season, but it is annoying when it happens. I feel like I have to limit my preaching, because for me since I live a block or so from a trailhead it's easier for me to just say "oh well" and call it off. I feel bad for the guys (like you, D!) that actually drive your cars from some distance to the park... it's probably harder to resist.

-pete
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Dmitri
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« Reply #44 on: February 05, 2008, 11:53:39 AM »
There are alternatives. We've bailed from the rides in the past and done hill-repeats to still get the work out in, and all. I'm itching to ride, but will bag my ride tonight. No biggie. What's a week or two compared to having these trails for years.

People just have no sense of responsibility now days. And are loosing sense of perspective.

Oh well. And Pete, don't limit your preaching. You're perfect candidate to check on the conditions and start preaching for the rest of us not to go, since you're so close and it's so easy for you to drop in for a quick check!

Thx
dz
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« Reply #45 on: February 05, 2008, 11:56:30 AM »
Is there any way, including permission from the FPC, to post signs advising people to stay off the trails on days when the conditions are horrible?
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fishnchips
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« Reply #46 on: February 05, 2008, 01:20:47 PM »
Reality is we could put armed guards and electric fences out there but people will still ride their bikes, walk their dogs, ride their horses, etc...

I think signs would help and educate, and peer pressure in the user community is always good. But it will never stop everyone.

I'm not advocating encouraging people use the trails all the time, but I reckon we need to think about building these trails even more sustainable than the initial plan. They are going to have to survive the current and increased use that they'll have, during both rain and shine.

Perhaps most of the trail underneath should be layered with a rock bed, like we did at the creek crossing on the Chestnut Hill side back in June or the mud pit near near Livezy (also chestnut hill side).  It would be a shame to put out $6million of cost and countless thousands of volunteers hours into the trail and then realize that it's not sustainable anyway.
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« Reply #47 on: February 05, 2008, 01:25:08 PM »
Check out this picture Coyle just posted:

http://www.bbtc.org/recreation/show_image.php?image_id=2979

what is that 'rock' path layer they put in? Can we layer the some of the worst trails underneath with something like that?
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Kelly
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« Reply #48 on: February 05, 2008, 01:31:20 PM »
Quote from: fishnchips on February 05, 2008, 01:20:47 PM

I think signs would help and educate, and peer pressure in the user community is always good. But it will never stop everyone.


That is what I am talking about.  A sign that reads, "If the following conditions are present.... please stay off the trails.  Use of trails during these conditions causes the following effects..."

I'm sure other municipal parks somewhere have signs like this, it just seems like common sense.
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Chuck U
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« Reply #49 on: February 05, 2008, 01:46:31 PM »
Yeah, I think signs are a good first step.  A bit of guilt and the evil eye too...

As far as armoring, at times like this, it seems to me you would have to armor pretty much the whole trail system.  Lot of work and maybe not best thing as far as keeping things natural.
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Kman
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« Reply #50 on: February 05, 2008, 02:09:39 PM »
Refering to the picture, I've seen the same material use at  whistler-- it was a gigantic rubber-plastic mat,-- ( I don't know the exact name ) on a huge burm, to help sustain a high speed turn.  It was a huge turn with a lot of wear, and helped stabilize the turn. The honeycomb pockets hold dirt.  as far as the trails, educating people and riders is a slow turning ship, that will turn with time, we need to insure the update on the front is accurate to make it reliable for others use, also, it is our duty as riders to be responsible, and be educated about the trails we ride. Informing other riders and trail users of who we are and what we do is a long term solution to helping keep people off the trials when the conditions suck.

Rock armoring the entire park sounds great on paper, but were are all the rocks going to come from.  Does every inch of the park need armoring..... NO, we need to educate the users of he trail, that takes time, I am open to any ideas one may have to help get the word out.  I rode Kelly drive on Saturday into the city and it was great, a shot of jack for the way back. Roll Eyes
« Last Edit: February 05, 2008, 09:08:31 PM by Kman » Logged
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Lou
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« Reply #51 on: February 05, 2008, 03:19:16 PM »
The blocks in those pics are made from aggregate, similar to cinder blocks. If anyone thinks we should put them anywhere on the natural surface trails in the Wiss, you better lay down the crack pipe and hit some heroin. Or I will just slap you silly if you want...  Huh Huh Huh Huh Huh
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Kman
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« Reply #52 on: February 05, 2008, 04:21:06 PM »
My last sentence on my previous post has typo's  Tongue

..and it was modified a bit....
« Last Edit: February 05, 2008, 09:09:07 PM by Kman » Logged
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fishnchips
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« Reply #53 on: February 05, 2008, 06:46:13 PM »
ahh, the forum, the place to exchange ideas.

I'd rather lay some rock under the trail then have no trail to worry about.

Kman, you can always edit your posts later; just hit the modify button.
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Kelly
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« Reply #54 on: February 05, 2008, 06:51:56 PM »
K, look for the "modify" button and click it. It's EASY. Sheesh, Then I can stop deleting your posts  Tongue

I am all for armoring or stone pitching the trails. But that is a lot of work and expensive. I was referring to the NON-natural looking pattern blocks that are used at bike parks like WHistler and Seattle. THey definitely have a purpose and place, just not in the Wiss, unless they are under the Henry Ave bridge at OUR bike park.  Grin  And I LOVE that huge wooden wall ride! We gotta make a few of those...
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Chuck U
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« Reply #55 on: February 05, 2008, 08:00:33 PM »
Bottom line is it would be best to keep as many users off the trails when they are wet as possible.  I think the sustainable trails project should make everything good for normal conditions.  We might get a few wrong here and there, but that can be fixed.   However if ppl are in there when the trails are wet they are gonna be berming the trails, making them hold more water....making people avoid the wet spots...making the trail wider...and so on.  The only solution to this is to basically rock everything that isn't currently rock which would be a nearly impossible project because of scale (and probably screw up the feel of the park).

I think our home page conditions light is awesome, signs in the park should come eventually and hopefully they will explain the results of riding when its wet.   It would be extra cool to somehow have the signs in the park have conditions like our home page (or like "smokey the bear" signs).  I'm not sure how that would work and without someone official out there I'm not even sure it would mean anything (to some folks).   Add to this that conditions can change in a matter of hours and it really comes down to people using their head and being responsible.    Undecided
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« Reply #56 on: February 05, 2008, 09:15:20 PM »

I think the key is to focus on everyone being able to know when to ride and when not to ride, and  maybe some bikers who go out on the trail will know that they shouldn't be there and abort the ride, or which trails are good and which trails are bad. That is what PMBA can do, bring riders together and educate them. Hopefully they will never get out on the trails in the 1st place when they are muddy and sloppy.