Theft at the Wiss.
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stern112
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« on: July 18, 2007, 08:07:51 AM »
Hey guys-- Saw this thread on MTBR.  Think we should all be careful- no matter where we park.

http://forums.mtbr.com/showthread.php?p=3313437&posted=1#post3313437
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Rico
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« Reply #1 on: July 18, 2007, 10:13:37 AM »
Damn, I didn't realize it was that bad.  I have only been there 3 times (once at NW Ave, twice at VG).  When I parked at VG, I parked in the Inn's parking lot....didn't realize that it was only for patrons.   Shocked

I will have to find the other entry points that Lou mentioned in the mtbr.com thread.
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Nike13r
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« Reply #2 on: July 18, 2007, 04:48:51 PM »
yes be carefull were you park down there, i get people that walk into the inn and say someone broke into their car. It happened to my sister's car already, but they didnt get anything. We just got a car bill b/c they messed up the door. They steal anything if they get in, dont leave expensive items in there
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RepoMan
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« Reply #3 on: July 19, 2007, 05:09:38 PM »
I posted this on mtbr, but I'll copy it here too:

My car and a buddy's were broken into in that lot up the road from the Inn a few years ago. We're convinced the guy scoped us out as riders, knew we weren't going to be back anytime soon and went for it. We reported it and I ended up getting my cell phone back. The guy was caught snatching a purse a couple days later and I guess they found a bunch of crap in his apartment. My friend wasn't as lucky, the guy went straight to Kmart (or whatever) in Flourtown and bought some electronics with his credit card.

That lot is bad news, in my opinion. This thread seals it. Luckily there are plenty safer places to park.

Sometimes in shadier areas I'll head out and then once I'm out of view, I'll wait and then turn back to see if there's anything fishy going on around my car. I'd never intend to confront anyone (you never know what they'd be willing to do to you), but I'd sure as hell call the cops.

I'll add here that I have never parked there since and that mtbr thread clinched it if I wasn't sure before. I'd say a few rules of thumb parking anywhere around the Wissahickon would be:

1) Never leave high value items or your wallet in the car
2) Try not to leave ANYTHING attractive in the car and cover anything you do have to leave in there (tools, equipment bags, etc)
3) Try to park in high traffic areas where there are always people around. They're out there, they just might not be as convenient.

That's just my two cents.
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jpearce
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« Reply #4 on: July 19, 2007, 06:27:49 PM »
One of the Thursday night riders' daughters had her car broken into in the Wises Mill Rd lot about 3 weeks ago.  She had put her purse in the trunk, and the thieves saw her put it there.  They broke the window, popped the trunk and got it.  So hide your stuff BEFORE you get to the parking lot. 
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« Reply #5 on: July 19, 2007, 06:33:39 PM »
Sound advice from many in this thread: My advice: Do not park at Bells Mills lot or up from Valley Green towards Chestnut Hill. Those lots are targeted by scums for some reason. I do see a police car there from time to time but not all the time and these scum only need a few minutes. Impossible to prevent. Definitely park at one of the many neighborhood trailheads. Roxborough has at least 5 that I can think of. These entry points are next to houses with people home and they won't allow this bullsheet. If they see said scum, they will call police immediately. Plus the dumb scum aren't aware of most of these entry points. Check a good map for these Rox entry points: Gorgas Lane, Green Lane, Graykyn Lane (at sports fields) Livezey St. (at the pavillion) Roxborough Ave. (near golf course). Me? I ride from my house. Problem solved   Tongue
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jpearce
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« Reply #6 on: July 19, 2007, 06:35:21 PM »
There's the solution - we all park at Lou's house! 
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juniorcaveman
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« Reply #7 on: July 22, 2007, 10:39:14 PM »
first - this is my first post, i'm a lurker by nature.  i'll try to post more often.
second - i apologize for the long winded post, i'm wordy.
third - in no way do i want to implicate anyone, but this is what i've experienced.  this is more of a heads up.

about a year ago my girlfriend and i went for a ride.  we parked in the upper valley green road lot and there was a guy hanging around, kind of pacing a little bit.  my initial thought was that it was a little odd, but how many times have i been waiting for the guy i'm riding with to show up and i'll pace back and forth?  well, sure enough, we get back to my baja about two hours later and my girlfriend's credit cards have been stolen out of the car.  i have to take the blame on this one because my car was unlocked by accident, so it's my own fault, but it still sucks balls (and a car left accidentally unlocked should not be an invitation to steal something out of it.  people shouldn't even be checking to see if the car is unlocked.  still my fault though.).  everything was left in place, so she didn't even realize it until pnc called about a suspicious purchase they had denied at a best buy in nj.  the people tried three cards in the best buy and only discover let the purchase go through.  (guess which card was canceled...)  i instantly thought of that guy i had seen, and my girlfriend had gotten the same weird vibe but didn't think anything of it at the time.  we called the police, yada yada, they couldn't even tell us which district we had to file the report in, we ended up at three different offices.  best buy had video surveillance of the purchase and just said that if the detective requested it, they would send it in.  never happened.  but that's for another day.

fast forward about a year to early this summer, i was parked at the upper bells mills lot and my friend and i had just gotten back to our cars.  sure enough, i recognized the guy i had seen before my car was broken into.  he was hanging out with another guy with a brand new trek that had obviously never been ridden, seriously.  no mud, nothing.  no rim wear from the brakes.  the two guys were hanging out in a new tan ford explorer.  the bike was gleaming in the sun.  my friend and i had a post-ride recovery snack, chatted for a bit, put our bikes on our racks.  all this took about 30 minutes and the whole time i just kind of kept an eye on these two guys.  the two would alternate between one guy sitting in the explorer and the other fiddling with the bike on the rack.  for thirty minutes.  finally, my friend had to take off, so i got in my car, pretended to talk on my cell phone and sat there and watched.  and watched.  and watched.  this lasted about 30 more minutes, until one of the guys came to the back of the explorer and looked over at me.  as soon as i made eye contact with him, he turned around and got in the car and backed out of the spot and pulled away.  there is no doubt in my mind that these are the guys that broke into my car and many, many others in the lots surrounding the wiss.

the best thing i can say is that any and all of us should just keep our eyes open.  the last thing these guys want are to be noticed or recognized.  obviously, they are trying hard to fit in, but if we pay attention, they obviously don't.  i'm not shy about calling the police or 911 if i see something effed up happening, lord knows if i saw a guy smashing a car window with a branch, i'd be on the phone in less than a second.

certainly, this is not a mountain biker-only issue.  any user of the park is at risk and if enough noise about this is made from PMBA, FOW, and any users of forbidden drive and the upper trails, all of the lots will be safer.

btw, i park at northwestern now.  and yes, my car is always locked and i always check it before i leave my car.   Roll Eyes

i'll go post somewhere else that is a happier topic now...
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chunter2
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« Reply #8 on: July 22, 2007, 11:32:53 PM »
Jeeze.
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fishnchips
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« Reply #9 on: July 22, 2007, 11:56:56 PM »
This news is painful to read, but nothing new I guess. I've heard so many reports over the years... But hearing them all at once is disconcerting.

I wonder how expensive would it be to put up a couple of fake cameras on the lots? Or a couple of real outdoor networked cameras; hidden?   I'm sure the VG Inn at least has internet access so it isn't like this would be outrageous investment.

I suppose that for every report we hear about there are another 100 we don't.

Lastly, and obviously, don't leave wallets or cards in the car. One jogger I know of had her passport stolen at VG two weeks ago! Maybe you can't protect everything but the wallet and credits cards will fit in the hydration pack. Time to make that a habit.
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Kelly
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« Reply #10 on: July 23, 2007, 12:33:42 AM »
agreed, don't leave valuables in the car.
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juniorcaveman
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« Reply #11 on: July 23, 2007, 09:59:29 AM »
i was wondering the same thing about cameras.

i'm sure that covering all the lots would be prohibitively expensive (or at least "not in the budget"), but putting boxes up that have one way mirrors or tinted windows with some that have cameras and some that don't, much like school buses have these days, might be enough of a deterrent.
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Rico
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« Reply #12 on: July 23, 2007, 04:29:32 PM »
I went out on Thursday afternoon and hit trails off of Wises Mill Road.  I made sure I didn't park at VG.....Parked on the other side of Henry Ave. in a neighborhood.
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jacalyn.clawson
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« Reply #13 on: July 31, 2008, 07:31:31 AM »
All, my credit card and cash were stolen last night (between 5 -8PM).  My purse was in the trunk of my locked car which was parked at Bells Mill (near the IMBA trail work).    I know shouldn't of left valuables in the car Sad

Anyhow, which police station do I report this too?  I know there was a tread about that, but can't find it now.
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jpearce
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« Reply #14 on: July 31, 2008, 08:08:07 AM »
Aw, geez...  How do the thieves get into a locked trunk?  Wish we had some kinda surveillance equipment.  They must be hiding somewhere in the woods and watching.

Anyway, it's the 92nd police district - 215-686-7292
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jacalyn.clawson
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« Reply #15 on: July 31, 2008, 09:15:38 AM »
Quote from: jpearce on July 31, 2008, 08:08:07 AM
Anyway, it's the 92nd police district - 215-686-7292
OK, so I called and they said that I had to stop by to report the theft.  He seemed to think that as long as I reported it to my credit card company there wasn't a point in reporting it to them.
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JDurk
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« Reply #16 on: July 31, 2008, 10:02:20 AM »
You are going to have to stop in the cop shop.  There is a point to reporting it.  As a victim of ID theft in the past, I would definitely file a police report to get it on record.  I would also recommend reporting it to the Federal Trade Commission.  Here's the link http://www.ftc.gov/bcp/edu/microsites/idtheft/.  The FTC has a list of steps to take making it a little less painful.
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Chuck U
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« Reply #17 on: July 31, 2008, 10:19:36 AM »
Quote from: jacalyn.clawson on July 31, 2008, 09:15:38 AM
.....He seemed to think that as long as I reported it to my credit card company there wasn't a point in reporting it to them.

Ha!  Roll Eyes  I thought that was their job?
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stymie
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« Reply #18 on: July 31, 2008, 11:24:34 AM »
Quote from: Chuck U on July 31, 2008, 10:19:36 AM
Ha!  Roll Eyes  I thought that was their job?

So many donuts, so little time  Tongue
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dannmer
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« Reply #19 on: July 31, 2008, 03:46:26 PM »
It is very important to report any break in to the police. Report it even if nothing was stolen.  I know it is a pain to report a crime but the police in the 92th will not do anything unless the crimes are reported. If you all start reporting crimes, then the captain of the 92th starts to look bad in his monthly reports. He does not want to report that crime has risen 20% over the same month last year. He wants to keep the reported crime levels down as low as possible and a lazy captain can do this by having his officers discourage people from filing reports. Crime reports will help the police determine when criminal activity is the highest and be more effective in scheduling patrols.

Other things to do:

Start an educational campaign, post fliers on the bulletin boards about safe parking practices.

Write a letter to the editor of local papers (Chestnut Hill Local, etc)

Try to interest a local newspaper reporter to write a story about the problem

Get together with other user groups and have representatives of these groups meet with the captain of the 92th to
discuss solutions to the problem

Write to your city councilman and local state rep/senator about the problem

Be very obvious about putting your wallet into your camelbak or back pocket after getting out of the car

Talk to park rangers when you see them in the park and encourage them to patrol the parking lots more often.
Call the park rangers office (215-685-2172) and let them know about the crime problem.

Citizen town watches or patrols.

Call/email the FOW about concerns or break-ins
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fishnchips
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« Reply #20 on: July 31, 2008, 04:37:00 PM »
dannmer, great ideas and enthusiasm.

anyway we could have you start up a PMBA committee to address this? (if the board is for it of course)

I know we've all bandied about a lot of ideas, and FOW has been talking with the police, lawyers and FPC to run a surveillance mission. As you can imagine, there is so much red tape it is unbelievable, but I know they are working on it.

I think signs and fake cameras and outreach at the very least could be done relatively easily.

As far as rangers, I've never seen one on the trails in 5 years, and I've only seen them on the Forbidden Trail three times. Even though FPC got it's first significant budget increase in 30 years we won't see new park rangers any time soon. I heard that in the 70's there were 70 park rangers in this area and now there are two.

I know one thing we had decided is when we do approach the police or rangers that we do it with answers and ideas rather than just hitting them with complaints. We want to team up with them rather than antagonize.  Personally I've found very sad that police will show up to write a tickets on a crowded day to ruin the outing of many a park user but they can't be bothered to come out to take a police report when someone has become a victim. Nonetheless, you catch more flies with honey.
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Kelly
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« Reply #21 on: July 31, 2008, 09:00:01 PM »
I have seen an increase in patrols recently down there at all hour of the day. Even the cops on the moto-cross bikes.
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Lust4singletrack
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« Reply #22 on: July 31, 2008, 10:24:01 PM »
All good ideas Dan. This really does suck that care more about tickets than doing something about this ongoing problem.

I've got one more: Don't park there.
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« Reply #23 on: July 31, 2008, 11:48:06 PM »
To echo Neil's point, tonight I saw a much greater police presence in the park then in the past. There was an officer sitting in his car watching the lower VGI lot, I saw two policemen on motorcycles on Forbidden Drive, and another was patrolling before the ride started at 5:30. The park rangers are mostly out during the day but if people start reporting  break-ins and most break-ins occur between 5 and 7 on weekdays then perhaps it would be possible to get them to patrol 11-7 instead of 9-5.

Setting up a PMBA committee is a good idea and we should contact the other user groups to get their input and cooperation.
It would be very helpful if the people who have had their cars broken into could let us know where and when the crime occurred.





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jpearce
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« Reply #24 on: August 01, 2008, 11:14:46 AM »
Jacalyn mentioned an interesting point - that her car doesn't have an alarm in it.  Seems that in most city settings alarms are pretty useless, but in the park it might be noticed.  Can anyone who's been a victim correlate the crime to the lack of alarm?  Certainly the thieves are sophisticated enough to know which cars come with alarms. 
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« Reply #25 on: August 01, 2008, 06:50:26 PM »
This post should be titled ANOTHER theft in the Wiss. Unfortunately these happen daily.
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