golf club climb "improvements"?
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max
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« on: May 15, 2007, 02:24:01 PM »
hey i found this over at mtbr...

http://forums.mtbr.com/showthread.php?p=3069974

i must say i haven't even seen it yet but i can imagine what it looks like.

what sucks is if they let us do it we could have made something nice... now i guess from the sounds of it they just made a car wide piece of shitty trail running striaght down the grade AGAIN that will errode AGAIN in no time.

tom? dimitri? i know you to are our head trail guys... any chance we might get first crack at something like this next time before they hit it with a bulldozer? do/could they even notify us or even FOW before they bust out major "improvments" like this? i know no mountainbikers feel this was an impovement to the park. i am wondering just who thinks this is better now than it was before?
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mtrostle
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« Reply #1 on: May 15, 2007, 03:38:46 PM »
I read the same thread earlier today and it had me scratching my head Huh I went through that section late Saturday afternoon and it was still the same as before, rocky and more rocky. I doubt they would have done it on Sunday, so my only guess is it happened yesterday?? I'll try to chek it out on my quick ride tonight...................
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lanceh
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« Reply #2 on: May 15, 2007, 03:52:14 PM »
it didn't happen monday because dmz3 mentioned that he rode wissa on sunday and it had already been "improved" when he went through. we figured it happend on saturday.

~scratches head~
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Lou
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« Reply #3 on: May 15, 2007, 03:56:39 PM »
Same old dumb shit done by the same dumb people who have no idea what they are doing, besides knowing how to keep their job and waste my tax dollars... I really could care less about making it easier because that is such a short climb anyway. I never really thought it was difficult. Anyway, if you want something more challenging, make a quick left up the hill right after the bridge, but I didn't tell you that...
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Dmitri
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« Reply #4 on: May 15, 2007, 04:09:47 PM »
It was already "improved" on Sunday around 3-4 PM

There is nothing that can be done to the ravine main trail. We can build a by-pass switch back singletrack along contour lines, to prevent erosion, but where would we send the horses?

Not a trivial spot. It will erode again. But for now it might be a bit easier to walk. My guess is that FPC worked on that section cos it's easy to get to with major machinery.

dz
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chunter
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« Reply #5 on: May 15, 2007, 04:17:46 PM »
Who made those improvements anyways?  I thought that they were welcomed.  It was definitely easier to climb although not sustainable by any means.
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« Reply #6 on: May 15, 2007, 06:29:24 PM »
We rode thru there last Saturday and there was a guy out with a big rake and bucket moving the rocks to the side of the trail.  It was just one guy - it didn't look like an organized effort  I actually like it better - I can now ride it rather than having to push my bike up the top 2/3 of it - but I can understand that some of the better riders would prefer the greater challenge.

Jon
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Lou
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« Reply #7 on: May 15, 2007, 09:07:45 PM »
Wow let me back up and rephrase myself. I was looking at it from a hard core biker perspective... I personally like seeing anyone out there doing work. That is what matters most right now, so those same people will participate in the FOW STI and we either need to have experts on hand or everyone needs to watch the government video and learn the correct way to build trails... At the last FOW volunteer day there was a lot of different opinions of what was the correct method to rebuild the trail. We need to have a screening all at the same time so everyone's on the same page. I can have one at my place or Tom or Dimitri, our HEAD TRAIL DUDES, can have it at their place... Whaddya think about next week Tues or Wed 5/22 or 5/23?
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Lust4singletrack
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« Reply #8 on: May 15, 2007, 10:37:07 PM »

We should not worry about this for now, since we have a bigger priority over at Blue Bell. The rock armoring project that we discussed over the weekend will be our next big effort on naitonal trails day.

Watching the video is a good start. We will get better with experience. That's the only real way to learn.
« Last Edit: May 16, 2007, 01:06:30 AM by chunter » Logged
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Tom Coyle
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« Reply #9 on: May 16, 2007, 01:07:00 AM »
Quote from: Lust4singletrack on May 15, 2007, 10:37:07 PM

We should not worry about this for now, since we have a bigger priority over at Blue Bell. The rock armoring project that we discussed over the weekend will be our next big effort on naitonal trails day.

Watching the video is a good start. We will get better with experience. That's the only real way to learn.




Tom, you're totally right and I agree 100%.  I think we are showing the FOW/FPC that we're serious and we're strong (both in a cohesive way and plain old physical strength). 

In regards to fixing unsustainable trails, well thats totally up to the individual in my opinion.  If one wants to play Sisyphus then so be it, I'll say thank you if I see them  Wink.

I'll tell you what, just being at the past 4 or so work days for the FOW and I feel as though I'm on my way to an honorary degree in ecology.  Its great to get hands on experience as to how the overall park ecosystem works.  Tom, I'll definitely aid you in getting the word out about our work day and try to get as many as we can out there to help.

Chris
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Lust4singletrack
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« Reply #10 on: May 17, 2007, 09:42:41 PM »
It's starting to get rocky again. Erosion is a powerful thing.
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Tom Coyle
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« Reply #11 on: May 18, 2007, 02:38:55 PM »
Yeah, I don't know what all the complaining was about on MTBR. Like Tom said, it is returning to "normal"
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DrSaw
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« Reply #12 on: May 20, 2007, 07:06:47 PM »
I was just out on Sunday, and the hill was totally redone by trail fairies (FOW?). Totally different fron 2 days before
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Lust4singletrack
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« Reply #13 on: May 20, 2007, 09:24:05 PM »
When you say totally different, was it made sustainable? Maybe I'll try to ride by there tomorrow to check it out.

I'd like to start collection some rocks for the trail armoring at the Blue bell trail. When you ride by, take a few minites to gather rocks, then ride on. Before you know it you'll have a nice pile. Dave D had mentioned the possibility of having a load of rocks dropped off. The more the better.
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max
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« Reply #14 on: May 21, 2007, 10:56:08 AM »
Quote from: Lust4singletrack on May 20, 2007, 09:24:05 PM
When you say totally different, was it made sustainable? Maybe I'll try to ride by there tomorrow to check it out.

I'd like to start collection some rocks for the trail armoring at the Blue bell trail. When you ride by, take a few minites to gather rocks, then ride on. Before you know it you'll have a nice pile. Dave D had mentioned the possibility of having a load of rocks dropped off. The more the better.

hey,

can we put up a big trail work page on the website?

something i can link to from mtbr and other interested websties.

if we are gonna have successful trail days we have to MARKET THEM WELL! at least at first....

sorry6 if i should know this already tom but; when is this? where? tell us all about it, put it on the website, lets make flyers.... good solid efforts like this are going to make us well known and respected here in town and if we can get a ton of people to show up it will be even more awesome!

if you can tell me by thursday i'll be sure to spread the word at the thursday belmont ride.

maybe also we can put up something about the plans to do this once a month from now on on the website? i think lots of mountainbikers would come out if they knew it directly impacted and improved the biking at wiss but we need to let them know it's happenin!
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Dmitri
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« Reply #15 on: May 21, 2007, 01:37:51 PM »
Will be on June 23rd.

Things might've changed, but the original thinking was not to have a huge crowd at the first TM day, being it our first attempt at it, it might be not a bad idea to practice our "construction zone foreman" skills and all the logistics like tools/food/water/coffee etc. on a smaller scale before trying to attract scores of volunteers.

But what do I know.

Event posted on the official calendar on the site.

dz
« Last Edit: May 21, 2007, 01:43:23 PM by dzm3 » Logged
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Lust4singletrack
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« Reply #16 on: May 21, 2007, 06:08:24 PM »
I like your thinking Max. Me and dz talked about it and thought it would be good to keep it between us (people who are reading the forum and participating regularly) till we get some practice. I just made up our first tool purchase list and it's expensive and not really enough tools to support a big crowd.

The area that we are working on is the trail that drops down from the Blue Bell athletic feilds. It's pretty much a fall line trail (bad) all the way to the bottom, were it turns into a mud pit right on the main tread. To get to the parking lot were the trail head is at, go across Walnut lane bridge, coming from roxbough, stay right and it's the first driveway on the right. Lots of people take their dogs there to run. Sound farmiliar?
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« Reply #17 on: May 21, 2007, 09:17:31 PM »
Checked out the progress on the "improvements". It's a cool line. Fun to ride. But...location location location.

Simply put. Water is the enemy. If you cannot keep water from gaining momentum on your trail surface, also called the tread, then you cannot make it sustainable. The soil will wash away. This line is going to require frequent maintenence, and some tough designing. I hope they finish, because I'm curious to see how it's going to turn out.
 
I'd also like to say the builder has a lot of potential, just needs some guidence. Lou wrote an idea about us getting together and watching the video on how to build sustainable trails. I like the idea, but don't think I can do it at my place right now. Maybe we can do it at the Manayunk diner at our next meeting? We should advertise that, Max, as long as the diner is able to accomodate.
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chunter
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« Reply #18 on: May 21, 2007, 10:02:59 PM »
Lou has a primo viewing situation for about 10 people at a time.  Maybe he'll offer his pad for a little PMBA "education party"  Grin.
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Dmitri
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« Reply #19 on: May 21, 2007, 10:35:10 PM »
Chris, I have an extra copy of that video on DVD. I'll put in the car, for the next time I see either one of you. Maybe it could be posted on teh site?

dz
« Last Edit: May 22, 2007, 07:31:12 AM by dzm3 » Logged
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chunter
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« Reply #20 on: May 22, 2007, 12:29:02 AM »
Yes.  If its in DVD format I can convert it to a steaming film.  No problem.  If its VHS I don't own a VCR so I'd need to borrow that too, lol!  Let me know,

Chris
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"and this guy gave me a ride
I said this industrial waste sure stinks
he said he likes that smell
'cause that's the smell of money
i said "well, mister money stinks, too."
Daniel Johnston "Cold hard world
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« Reply #21 on: May 22, 2007, 08:37:34 AM »
I have access to a video projector and can play a DVD from my laptop, if you want to show the DVD in a forum like the diner that would allow a larger audience.

Jon
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« Reply #22 on: May 22, 2007, 09:44:56 AM »
Dmitri,

Let me know the next time you're going to be in the park or around roxborough.  I'll meet up with you and pick up that video.  I'd like to put that on the site.  I think Lou has some other video from the National Parks organization as well.  Maybe I'll put that up too.

Chris
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"and this guy gave me a ride
I said this industrial waste sure stinks
he said he likes that smell
'cause that's the smell of money
i said "well, mister money stinks, too."
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« Reply #23 on: May 22, 2007, 10:19:38 AM »
Will be riding tomorrow (Wed) check the Wissy forum for the details. Starting at 5:30-ish from stables on Northwestern and will stop by VG around 6.
Can meet up with you after the ride as well.

dz
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« Reply #24 on: May 22, 2007, 12:22:52 PM »
I have a projector and DVD laptop also if needed.
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« Reply #25 on: May 23, 2007, 03:29:01 PM »
I rode it yesterday and was disappointed. I'd always had trouble with that hill so when I make it it's a big triumph. But if you're just going to throw dirt down and bulldoze it, then you mayaswell lay asphalt instead...    It just makes other riders think it's been sanitized, and it has.

That hill, like many, is cyclical. It corrodes, gets rocky, then the rain comes and smooths it out. Or vice versa; sometimes the rain comes and chews it up. The 'ravine' is about 3' deep and would need about 80 trucks of earth to fill it. I've no doubt the best way to repair it is to do absolutely nothing. Let it corrode, let the trees fall over it, and leave them there. Let switchbacks be created and new trails formed. Meanwhile that old trail will repair itself in about 100 years...

OK, maybe the above method won't work for that hill, but it would for a great many other trails in the system.
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