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Mud on Demo Trail Follow-up
Philadelphia Mountain Biking Association - Forums
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Mud on Demo Trail Follow-up
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Topic: Mud on Demo Trail Follow-up (Read 879 times)
DaveFOW
Gold Member
Newbie
Posts: 23
Mud on Demo Trail Follow-up
«
on:
March 17, 2007, 05:43:41 PM »
Below from Jill Van Winkle who headed up construction and design of the Demonstration Trail. This is a bit of a follow-up of the discussion from a week or two ago, and echoes much of what was written then.
David, FOW
From:
jill@imba.com
Subject: Re: Demonstration trail observation
Date: March 17, 2007 4:33:16 PM EDT
To:
mccarthy@fow.org
Cc:
ddannenberg@mac.com
Hi Maura,
It's unfortunate that they are experiencing mud along the new trail. However, given the newness of the trail and the weather conditions, it is not too surprising.
Trails need to "cure" and this process takes time and compaction. Time allows constructed tread to settle and harden. Use causes compaction, which reduces soil permeability, helping water to run across a properly outsloped trail, rather than percolating into the soil or scouring the tread. The existing trails in the park have had decades of heavy use and time to compact, becoming virtually impermeable (which is why, when closing these trails, we "rip" them, de-compacting the soil to allow water to percolate and plants to root). During the wet winter and freeze-thaw conditions, water saturates the not-sufficiently compacted tread and expands and contracts during the freeze-thaw cycles causing muddiness.
We did use a vibratory compactor on the tread, which helps to hurry the process, but time and continued use are the best cure. This process can take up to a year, depending upon weather conditions. On National Forest trails, where use can be more easily restricted, a newly cut trail often has at least a winter and spring to sit without use.
Some Parks limit use when trails are muddy, but this is not a very reasonable option for the heavily used trails in the Wissahickon (though signs and user education can reduce the number of users or steer them to other trails).
I'll take a look at the demo site while I'm at the Park this week to see if there are any other factors that might be affecting the drainage.
I hope this is helpful and that the trail dries out soon!
Best,
Jill
Jill Van Winkle - Trail Specialist
IMBA Trail Solutions
Hood River, OR
303/330-7888
jill@imba.com
On Mar 15, 2007, at 12:37 PM, Maura McCarthy wrote:
Jill, any ideas why this might be?
Maura McCarthy
Executive Director
Friends of the Wissahickon
8708 Germantown Avenue
Philadelphia PA 19118
215-247-0417, Fax: 215-247-9329
www.fow.org
From: Mark Pennington
Sent: Thursday, March 15, 2007 12:15 PM
To: mmccarthy.fow@verizon.net; David Dannenberg
Subject: Demonstration trail observation
David and Maura:
I don't know if anyone has mentioned this condition to you yet but I thought I'd pass on an observation on the demonstration trail.
I rode the yellow trail yesterday from Belle's Mills to Lincoln Drive (on the Inn side of the creek) hoping that the trails would have dried out since the rain last weekend. Generally the trails had dried out well, just a few spots of mud here and there. Surprisingly, though, the demonstration trail was all mud--muddier than I've ever seen it and way more muddy than any other stretch of trail. I'm not sure why it would have retained water so much more than the rest of the trail system particularly since it always seemed to drain so well previously. Possibly something to do with the freeze/thaw cycle, maybe the trail design lends itself to retaining more water? Just a guess but it may be a good question to pose to the IMBA folks. If the whole trail system would have been in that shape, particularly with the number of riders who were taking advantage of the good weather yesterday, the trails would have been trashed.
I'd be curious to hear if the IMBA folks have any ideas.
Mark Pennington
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Lust4singletrack
The trail/ tool guy
PMBA Moderator
Jedi
Posts: 1220
Energy is always flowing. Ride it.
Re: Mud on Demo Trail Follow-up
«
Reply #1 on:
March 17, 2007, 08:35:48 PM »
Very interesting. So does this mean that muddy conditions on the new sections will be unavoidable this time of year. I wonder how much of a negative effect the heavy use will have on the shape of the tread. Maybe it will be necesary to do some maintenence on that section to help the drying process? Maybe it would be better left alone? We may see some outside berming on some of the tread surface.
This is a good learning experience for us to see the cause and effects of heavy use on such a new tread. Time will tell.
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Keep trails friendly. Go by slow and say "Hello"
Tom Coyle
DaveFOW
Gold Member
Newbie
Posts: 23
Re: Mud on Demo Trail Follow-up
«
Reply #2 on:
March 18, 2007, 01:36:05 PM »
I think we should leave it alone for now and watch it over the next 3-9 months. If necessary we can de-berm during drier weather. I do not think it will remain wet and muddy past mid-April.
David, FOW
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Dmitri
Platinum Member
Addict
Posts: 861
Re: Mud on Demo Trail Follow-up
«
Reply #3 on:
March 18, 2007, 01:53:10 PM »
Quote from: DaveFOW on March 18, 2007, 01:36:05 PM
I think we should leave it alone for now and watch it over the next 3-9 months. If necessary we can de-berm during drier weather. I do not think it will remain wet and muddy past mid-April.
David, FOW
Dave, don't mean to be a wise-a$$, but i just found it rather amuzing that we will have to detour the new trail, which in turn was put in place in order to re-route or detour the old erroded trial.
I know, I know. It's all just temporary, and will be all good in few months. But meanwhile, the irony is rathe amusing.
All, right, off to my couch to sit-out this week to let everything dry out again.
dz
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I crash therefore I am!
DaveFOW
Gold Member
Newbie
Posts: 23
Re: Mud on Demo Trail Follow-up
«
Reply #4 on:
March 18, 2007, 02:43:41 PM »
Allow me to clarify:
I didn't mean "leave it alone" as in "stay off of it", I meant "leave it alone" as in "let's not do any work on it."
Please, use it. You may want to stay off it if it is really really sloppy, same as any other trail, but it should be used. Another detour would be a mistake--more mess, more erosion, more reclamation later.
Use it, stay on the tread, and we will see how it looks over the next 3-9 months to determine what, if any, additional work needs to be done. It won't compact and break in if it is left completely alone.
Dave
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