Calling PMBA Trailbuilders-Check out Ringwood NJ
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Author Topic: Calling PMBA Trailbuilders-Check out Ringwood NJ  (Read 523 times)
jomissa
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« on: December 07, 2008, 09:55:42 PM »
I used to live in northern NJ and the trails at ringwood were always the same...as in very little new ones were built.  A few years ago, just as the genisis of PMBA occured, a few riders started working the trails, built and fixed many, and now work with the local park officials.  this is an extention of JAR and RVCC undoubtetly.

The big difference is the trails there are mostly SINGLETRACK and all are built by hand.  What struck me yesterday was the sheer effort it must take these trailbuilders to cut the new trail in.  Ringwood is rocky as all hell and i could not imagine the effort it took to dig the soil inbetween the ricks.  how is it done?  IM not a trail builder...just a rider so I wonder if some of the bulders here have a) been to the NEW trails in ringwood- open only within the last 4 years and the VERY new skyline trail opened only this year?  Maybe you guys can hook up and work with the ringwood crew to see how they do it? 

If the trails in wiss are not rocky by the nature of the geography...maybe clearing some leaves and digging in a bit is all we need and well have- singletrack! 

Basically- i was pretty impressed by the trailwork.  ill post a raw video of one trail they call six bridges.  its sweet, has sweeping switchbacks, nice rock gardens, and is all approx 18-20 inches wide on the cut.  very nice. they buffer with felled tree limbs to guide the trail.   check it out.  six bridges meanders through a valley and its an 8 minute section....sweet!! 

« Last Edit: December 08, 2008, 01:59:03 PM by jomissa » Logged
DannyC21
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« Reply #1 on: December 08, 2008, 12:04:27 AM »
Sorry I can't comment on the trail building stuff, but I can say Ringwood is becoming a pretty sweet place to ride.  My parents live in Northen NJ and I ride there when I go up.  Just have to watch out for the bears in the summer - ran into three back in July and got a little closer than I wanted too. 
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jomissa
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« Reply #2 on: December 08, 2008, 01:55:13 PM »
Ringwood has been a great place to ride for a very long time and it just keeps gettting better!

Here's the unedited helmet cam from the section i described.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZQU0pfO1Aig

Wonder hat our trailbuilders think???  The texture of thi strail is is so different from wiss...
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fishnchips
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« Reply #3 on: December 08, 2008, 02:34:03 PM »
that was great Grin    Much different than the Wiss for sure. That trail won't see a million users per/year, but I don't see why the Wiss shouldn't have some miles  of singletrack offshoots that meander around and take advantage of various formations and textures. Traffic is definitely a huge problem, but not if the trail is built correctly. I don't think we really have any meandering trails; they pretty much all act as a road headed somewhere in the woods. We could call them 'nature loops'.

I did notice the trail went directly over some exposed roots. As fun as that is I wonder what the long term issues are? Perhaps with little traffic any damage is minimal?

It's a shame we can't use little wooden bridges like that in the many poorly draining areas the Wiss has. French Creek and Neshamininy both have a lot of wood trail sections just used to overpass soft areas.
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Kelly
jomissa
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« Reply #4 on: December 08, 2008, 03:35:02 PM »
i dont think wiss itself gets 1 Million users per year on the trails.  C'mon.  thats Bush math.
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fishnchips
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« Reply #5 on: December 08, 2008, 03:45:39 PM »
seriously, I think they get 500,000, though 1000 those are probably Tom.

I just heard FOW and IMBA using those numbers during PHASE 1 a couple months ago. I'm sure they are not accurate, but it probably brings in the funding. So even at 500,000 it is an incredibly busy trail system. Unfortunately one of the benefits and drawbacks to improving these trails will be even more people using them.
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Kelly
jomissa
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« Reply #6 on: December 08, 2008, 03:53:50 PM »
im still not buying it.  BUT- lets not digress.  where are all the trailbuilders comments.  they were so active on the last blow out....maybe they got tired.
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fishnchips
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« Reply #7 on: December 08, 2008, 04:33:56 PM »
I think they're out building trails Tongue, though I do have a knack for scaring people off.
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Kelly
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« Reply #8 on: December 08, 2008, 06:15:58 PM »
You guys are comical!!! I love reading the discussions either one of you starts. It's like a slow game of badminton with John McEnroe.  Grin

Seriously though, good topic!!

The trail system in Richmond, Va (James River Park System) has about 22 miles of nice single track that rolls over all types of terrain. It’s 4 different trail systems that connect for one great loop back and forth over the river. One section that is about 100 meters by 100 meters has about 12 switchbacks to climb or descend on the side of a ridge. It's a great section that rolls really fast in either direction. The amazing thing is the entire system is a multi-user trail, handles a ton of traffic each year, is the location of XTERRA East Championship and mostly maintained by the local mt. club. I definitely think the Wiss could benefit from an addition like that...............
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dirtmerchant
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« Reply #9 on: December 08, 2008, 08:42:56 PM »
I am not a professional trail builder by any means but I have spent countless hours moving dirt and rocks in the Wiss. All I can say on this topic is that comparing the surface materials and conditions, the dirt make up if you would, as well as the community aspects of trail building, i.e. mountain biking single track, at Ringwood with our situation in the Wiss is like comparing apples to oranges.

For this reason alone I would not expect any other people who have a slight education on trail building in the Wiss to respond to this thread. It's worthless and I can't believe I just responded but I feel bad for you guys...  Grin Kiss
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FletcherStinks
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« Reply #10 on: December 08, 2008, 09:05:12 PM »
Quote from: Lou on December 08, 2008, 08:42:56 PM
For this reason alone I would not expect any other people who have a slight education on trail building in the Wiss to respond to this thread. It's worthless and I can't believe I just responded but I feel bad for you guys...  Grin Kiss

Next boring thread please
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Lust4singletrack
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« Reply #11 on: December 09, 2008, 08:18:00 AM »
Sorry for not responding, but I fell asleep after watching your helmet cam footage.

Seriously the trails and terrain at this place are nothing like Wiss at all. Also, putting logs on the ground to anchor the corridor of the trail is one of my least favorite building techniques. Especially if you use them on the downslope since it traps water on the tread.

The trails look like fun though. I'd like to go ride them.
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Dmitri
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« Reply #12 on: December 09, 2008, 08:36:53 AM »
I've been to Ringwood, and it's a really really fun place to ride. Many places with great switch backs on really steep slopes. Very labor intensive.

I would like to address Jesse's suggestion of addint more trails. We already have 57 miles of trails in Wiss. That's HUGE for the size of the park. Adding more will invade and distroy too much of natural habitat. I forget the exact number, but as part of the STI, just narrowing some of the existing trails will return 28 acres back to the natural habitat. That's 1.5% of the total 1,800 acres of the park. That's huge. Adding more trails will take away that gain. BTW, this is the numbers for all STI ney-sayers complaining about widening of the trails...

As to the rest, the tight switchbacks, the rockiness, the logs, etc. we already covered in the other thread. There are pluses and serious minuses to all of those. And we can make up hours worth of arguments each way.

dz
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mtrostle
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« Reply #13 on: December 09, 2008, 09:40:59 AM »
Quote from: Lou on December 08, 2008, 08:42:56 PM
For this reason alone I would not expect any other people who have a slight education on trail building in the Wiss to respond to this thread. It's worthless and I can't believe I just responded but I feel bad for you guys...  Grin Kiss

WOW, and uh, WTF?Huh I can appreciate the fact that our comments or suggestions may not have weight or any type of reality when it comes to building trails in the Wiss, but that response was completely uncalled for...........

You may have intended the response to be sarcastic (maybe not?), but when I log in 12 hours later to read the forums it sure doesn't come off that way.............
« Last Edit: December 09, 2008, 09:50:11 AM by Dmitri » Logged
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cmh
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« Reply #14 on: December 09, 2008, 10:05:15 AM »
Ringwood is an awesome trail system.  I had the luxury of living with those trails as my backyard -- literally -- for years.  I lived in Ringwood, and state park land was behind our house.  I'd get home from school, get changed, and roll out the back yard into all that goodness.  Was back not too long ago, my cousin is a very strong rider and still lives up there.  We got together up there and he showed me the way to some of the new trails.  They've done some great stuff up there.

Now I live down here and have to drive 25-30 minutes to get to any good trails. Sad
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cmh
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« Reply #15 on: December 09, 2008, 10:10:15 AM »
Quote from: jomissa on December 08, 2008, 01:55:13 PM
Ringwood has been a great place to ride for a very long time and it just keeps gettting better!

Here's the unedited helmet cam from the section i described.

Ah, yeah, six bridges... didn't know it by name, but I rode that with Ryan, good stuff.  Less than a mile from where I used to live.  Can you believe my folks had the nerve to move out of that house and down to NC away from any decent trails?
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Lust4singletrack
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« Reply #16 on: December 09, 2008, 10:13:26 AM »
Quote
Ringwood is an awesome trail system.

Is this the place that riders are always giving props for holding up well during the sloppy season?

You know, when you can't ride anywhere cause of soft and wet trails. But something about the rocks and the terrain here make it hold up. Not sure if this is the place, but if so we should plan some rides there.
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Dmitri
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« Reply #17 on: December 09, 2008, 10:14:06 AM »
Quote from: cmh on December 09, 2008, 10:10:15 AM
Can you believe my folks had the nerve to move out of that house and down to NC away from any decent trails?

I cannot believe you were stupid enough to get married and move out of your parent's house!!! :-P
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Dmitri
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« Reply #18 on: December 09, 2008, 10:16:14 AM »
There is another place Max always raves about staying in good condition despite any weather. Was it Mt. Penn or something like that around Reading, IIRC...
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mtrostle
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« Reply #19 on: December 09, 2008, 10:23:13 AM »
Gambril State Park outside of Frederick, Md is like that. You can ride year round despite the weather conditions. All rocks up hill and down hill. Drains fast. The only exception is if you have icy conditions.
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jomissa
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« Reply #20 on: December 09, 2008, 11:17:23 AM »
totally not trying to start crap on this thread.  just wanted to show some other trails to understand POV on trailbuilding relatove to wiss and other systems that i ride.

the last thread was contentious. this one, i was trying to be constructiuve and elevate the discussion to examples of where wiss efforts could improve so to say...
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fishnchips
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« Reply #21 on: December 09, 2008, 11:55:43 AM »
We may have 57 miles of trails in the Wiss, but unfortunately 99% of all MTB riding takes place on about 14 miles of them. I think that is a huge issue.

The Coil is a perfect example of an off-shoot trail. It is by no means perfect but takes advantage of an industrial waste dump as well as the area under a bridge where by definition there is massive man-made destruction of whatever was 'natural'. There's no reason environmentally or otherwise that we can't have a lot of similar trails. Under each large bridge alone we could have a mini bike park and trail system, and in the process perhaps fix some of the problems the bridges create. And if there is too many 'trails' for the park then we should be allowed to use the rest, which would spread the traffic out from the main freeway trail.

Sky is blue, but I have noticed of late that no matter what I say someone is going to tell me how wrong I am.  I guess the sky isn't so blue today.
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Kelly
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« Reply #22 on: December 09, 2008, 12:52:39 PM »
You are correct, it is Grey.

:K
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