GPS advice
Philadelphia Mountain Biking Association - Forums
*
 
Pages: [1]
« previous next »
  Print  
Author Topic: GPS advice  (Read 680 times)
DannyC21
Bronze Member
Expert
*
Posts: 149



View Profile Email
« on: November 24, 2008, 09:57:52 PM »
I know some of you guys really like using GPS systems and happen to know a little something about them, so I was wondering if I can get some advice.  With the holiday's coming up I've been looking into them, but I'm having trouble figuring which one is best for me.

Basically, I'm looking for one that will really benefit me while hiking and biking trails, save routes, store routes on my PC, and have at least decent driving directions.  I may be a little to greedy, but I'd like to try and get it all-in-one rather than get two seperate GPS - one for the woods and one for driving.  I don't know much about mapping, so its not a priority, but it is something I do have an interest in learning, so if anyone has recommendation for that I'd appreciate it. 

So what do you use?  And what do you think is a good choice for me?  All recommendations will be considered and thanks in advance!
Logged
jpearce
Platinum Member
Addict
****
Posts: 523


jpearce@dgapartners.com
View Profile WWW Email
« Reply #1 on: November 25, 2008, 07:39:27 AM »
Dan - you might be able to get everything in one package, although it may not be optimal.  To get the street-level driving directions you'll need something that has the street maps available.  I have a Garmin Venture that I use for road biking that has street maps, which I've found to be pretty useful.  The handlebar-mount units don't have voice directions - they'll just beep when you're supposed to turn.  They're also obviously harder to read than auto units, so they may be a little dangerous to use in a car.  But they will work.  They'll also let you record a "track", which can be downloaded into various types of software and used to create trail maps and logs of your hiking and biking trips.  I have a Delorme PN-20 that I use for mountain biking that integrates with the Topo USA software and lets me make topographic maps of bike trips.  But you cvould use any other GPS to do that - you'd just need to do a few more steps to import the GPS data.

Unfortunately I don't have current knowledge of the stuff that's out there - my units are a few years old - so there's probably better stuff available.

Jon
Logged
We do these things not because they are easy but because they are hard.
Dmitri
Platinum Member
Addict
****
Posts: 900


dzorine
View Profile Email
« Reply #2 on: November 25, 2008, 09:16:38 AM »
No first hand experience, but... I've been arguing the same question with a buddy of mine. Basically Garmin 705 for nearly $500 for ability to store maps and driving directions, over a much more reasonable 305 with a separate car GPS.

He had convinced me that two separate dedicated ones would be the way to go. It seems that all in one GPS units that can be used in both applications end up being more expensive and less than optimal for each use. Besides, do you want to slap a $500 piece of equipment on your bike and risk breaking it?

I think getting two $200-250 dedicated systems for each application is a better solution.

Just my $0.02
Logged
I crash therefore I am!
DannyC21
Bronze Member
Expert
*
Posts: 149



View Profile Email
« Reply #3 on: November 25, 2008, 10:04:58 AM »
Quote
I think getting two $200-250 dedicated systems for each application is a better solution

Yea I've been hearing that a lot too Dmitri.

And thanks for the tips John, there is a lot that goies into looking into these things.

I'm trying to decide whether getting something like the Garmin Nuvi 500 would be best, but I'm getting mediocre reviews about its effectiveness in the woods.  I also really like the Garmin 60CSx for its outdoor capabilities, but I get mediocre reviews about its driving capabilites.  It seems these big companies have decided to hold off on making the best crossover GPS receiver (greedy bastards - you know its sitting a drawer somewhere waiting to be released). 

So I may be also contemplating getting two receivers, even though I was really hoping to save some money by getting it all-in-one. 

Which two units are you considering Dmitri? 
Logged
jpearce
Platinum Member
Addict
****
Posts: 523


jpearce@dgapartners.com
View Profile WWW Email
« Reply #4 on: November 25, 2008, 12:55:47 PM »
I wouldn't consider using a Nuvi in the woods for several reasons.  First, it's too freakin big.  And I doubt that its receiver is optimized for the woods.  I get significantly better tracks with my PN-20 than I do with the cheaper Forerunner - the Forerunner's tracks will show long straight lines in the woods (where it lost the signal and needed to interpolate between points), where the PN-20 shows every turn because it was still locked onto the satellite.  Also, I don't think it will record a track, which you want to do for making trail maps and tracking where you've been.

I don't know that the GPS companies are being all that greedy.  A unit that's big enough to read safely in a car isn't going to fit well onto a bike.  A really cool possibility might be a handheld unit that fits inside a shell with a larger display for use in a car.  I'm sure it doesn't exist, but THAT would be really neat.
Logged
We do these things not because they are easy but because they are hard.
DannyC21
Bronze Member
Expert
*
Posts: 149



View Profile Email
« Reply #5 on: November 25, 2008, 03:20:17 PM »
Thanks Jon.

I'm also highly considering the Garmin Colorado 400t.  It is on sale at REI this week and I have read some pretty good reviews.  It has turn-by-turn directions as well as great Topo map software and storage space.  Its suppose to be rugged, waterproof (to an extent) and will have a lot of cool functions to play around with.  I plan doing some in-store shopping tomorrow and seeing if I check one out in person, as well as some other units. 

Has anyone ever used a Colorado series Garmin? 
Logged
DrSaw
Gold Member
Expert
***
Posts: 329



View Profile Email
« Reply #6 on: November 25, 2008, 09:01:28 PM »
I have had the Garmin 305 and the now the new 605. But really set up for a bike, not great unless your hold it. The Garmin GPS watches have come a long way, and with a handlebar mount, you can tale it hiking or biking.

Check out Motionbased.com  You can upload your tracks to view tons of information and pictures (even 'live motion"), and download tracks into your unit for trying out new trails.

I would suggest trying it out on trails you are familier with first. I had it on during a race, and it went haywire from a preride back-track the week before. My fault, not the units
Logged
What hill?
jpearce
Platinum Member
Addict
****
Posts: 523


jpearce@dgapartners.com
View Profile WWW Email
« Reply #7 on: November 26, 2008, 07:53:37 AM »
There's also a shareware program called SportTracks that I use with my Forerunner to track every ride that I take .  You can download the GPS directly into it and it creates a calendar-based log showing location, distance, elevation change, and the route on either a Google Earth or Google Maps depiction.  Very useful.
Logged
We do these things not because they are easy but because they are hard.
Lust4singletrack
The trail/ tool guy
PMBA Moderator
Jedi
*****
Posts: 1315


Keep trails friendly. Go by slow and say "Hello"

tgunz75@aol.com
View Profile Email
« Reply #8 on: November 26, 2008, 01:16:35 PM »
That does sound useful, Jon. So how many miles have you logged this year? Does it give you that kind of info? Does it also tally your total elevation?
Logged
"Trails help humans make sense of a world increasingly dominated by pavement. They allow us to come more closely in touch with our natural surroundings, to soothe our psyches, to challenge our bodies, and to practice ancient skills"
DrSaw
Gold Member
Expert
***
Posts: 329



View Profile Email
« Reply #9 on: November 27, 2008, 07:58:30 AM »
Tom, example of some of the features you were asking about: and tallies miles, avg speed, elevation, etc per the time period you want.

http://trail.motionbased.com/trail/activity/6961941

You can get endless info (Activity Dashboard on left), and if you pick map player tab on the right, and download a small program, you can see the ride happening "live".
« Last Edit: November 27, 2008, 08:02:19 AM by DrSaw » Logged
What hill?
jpearce
Platinum Member
Addict
****
Posts: 523


jpearce@dgapartners.com
View Profile WWW Email
« Reply #10 on: November 29, 2008, 12:53:42 PM »
I have 385 miles in 2008 YTD, lower than about 400 in 2007.  Seem like it should be longer, but I guess those short Wiss rides take a while to add up.  Interesting that there's no summary for elevation change, although it does summarize time (about 80 hours) and avg speed (4.8 mph).  If you tell it which bike you're riding it will keep track of you rmileage - I have 290 miles on the GF that I bought in May.
Logged
We do these things not because they are easy but because they are hard.
halfLoop
Platinum Member
Amateur
****
Posts: 89



View Profile Email
« Reply #11 on: November 29, 2008, 06:20:31 PM »
Jon, you're on track to shatter 2007 ~ two Thursday Wiss rides should put you over the top.
Logged
Lust4singletrack
The trail/ tool guy
PMBA Moderator
Jedi
*****
Posts: 1315


Keep trails friendly. Go by slow and say "Hello"

tgunz75@aol.com
View Profile Email
« Reply #12 on: November 29, 2008, 11:29:07 PM »
Nice Jon! That's some good mileage. You have me beat for sure (gotta stop doing trail work and actually ride my bike sometime).

You can do more at wiss, but it's so hard to keep going after the...halfloop. We've been trying to do longer rides at Wiss lately. Like threequarterloop.
Logged
"Trails help humans make sense of a world increasingly dominated by pavement. They allow us to come more closely in touch with our natural surroundings, to soothe our psyches, to challenge our bodies, and to practice ancient skills"
jpearce
Platinum Member
Addict
****
Posts: 523


jpearce@dgapartners.com
View Profile WWW Email
« Reply #13 on: December 01, 2008, 08:15:29 AM »
Well, I added 11 miles on Friday at Fair Hill, and hopefully will get a few more rides in this month.  I've probably done a few where I forgot the GPS, too.  But it's neat to be able to look back through the year and see every ride.  It keeps a GPX track, too, so you can create a trail map from everywhere you've ridden.
Logged
We do these things not because they are easy but because they are hard.
halfLoop
Platinum Member
Amateur
****
Posts: 89



View Profile Email
« Reply #14 on: December 01, 2008, 08:31:45 AM »
Hmm,... threequarterloop.  I may have to try one of these.
Logged
cmh
Platinum Member
Newbie
****
Posts: 10

db94wookie
View Profile Email
« Reply #15 on: December 03, 2008, 11:11:07 PM »
Quote from: Dmitri on November 25, 2008, 09:16:38 AM
No first hand experience, but... I've been arguing the same question with a buddy of mine. Basically Garmin 705 for nearly $500 for ability to store maps and driving directions, over a much more reasonable 305 with a separate car GPS.

He had convinced me that two separate dedicated ones would be the way to go. It seems that all in one GPS units that can be used in both applications end up being more expensive and less than optimal for each use. Besides, do you want to slap a $500 piece of equipment on your bike and risk breaking it?

I think getting two $200-250 dedicated systems for each application is a better solution.

Just my $0.02

Being the buddy in question, I still endorse the two GPS setup.  Smiley  (and he stole my $0.02 damnit)

While you can use the Edge 705 for car navigating, it ain't gonna talk you through the turns (at least I don't THINK it does) -- that's just not what it's geared towards.

Another thing worth considering.  The Edge 705 is just awesome sexy with its big color display and awesome fanciness.  However, the Edge 305 is a whole bunch less, and does 95% of what the 705 does.  (I don't have the 705 so leave it to the 705 owners to tell me I'm full of p00p)  A buddy at work was considering the 305 or the 705 for his birthday present to himself, and it just so happened that I have the 305 and another guy has the 705.  Fletcher looked at the two, looked at the price difference, and bought the 305.  Best I've seen (not that I've looked in the past couple of months) was $240 for the Edge 305 with the HRM strap and the cadence/rear wheel speed sensor.

Speaking of the cadence/speed sensor, mine crapped out.  Contacted Garmin, they sent me a new one, no problems at all.  Just a bump for them and their customer service.  Unfortunately I haven't been on that bike since the end of September.  Cry

MotionBased is ok, but I am still waiting for GPS analysis website/software that does some really impressive stuff.  I mean, the data is there.  It wouldn't be that hard to say - look at all my rides in Wissahickon, find all the ones that go up the golf course climb (search for a starting point  at the bottom and a point after that at the top) and then show me how my times in that section improved over the course of the year.  Heck, you might even be able to look at the data and say how many times you walked the hill.  (not that I ever need to do that Roll Eyes )  In the meantime, though, the stuff it *does* record is just really, really cool.
Logged
likes the bikes.
jpearce
Platinum Member
Addict
****
Posts: 523


jpearce@dgapartners.com
View Profile WWW Email
« Reply #16 on: December 04, 2008, 07:44:49 AM »
Cool idea (tracking time up the golf course hill).  The GPX tracks contain enough data to do that - the only problem would be the accuracy of the GPS in accurately locating the bottom and top points.  I must have a dozen GPX tracks of that hill - I'm gonna try figuring out the climb times.  That will be a good project for Sunday when it's snowing and I can't ride.  Thanks for the idea.

Jon
Logged
We do these things not because they are easy but because they are hard.
cmh
Platinum Member
Newbie
****
Posts: 10

db94wookie
View Profile Email
« Reply #17 on: December 04, 2008, 02:10:24 PM »
Quote from: jpearce on December 04, 2008, 07:44:49 AM
Cool idea (tracking time up the golf course hill).  The GPX tracks contain enough data to do that - the only problem would be the accuracy of the GPS in accurately locating the bottom and top points.  I must have a dozen GPX tracks of that hill - I'm gonna try figuring out the climb times.  That will be a good project for Sunday when it's snowing and I can't ride.  Thanks for the idea.

I don't know much about programming or handling data like this, but I was thinking the best way would be to choose the lat and long of a point in the center of the trail at the bottom, and look for points that fall within a 10 foot radius to call the start.  Would have to account for datapoints that fall on either side of the start point, but probably wouldn't be too difficult to check the

Depending on the recording style and any inaccuracy, you might not be able to get useful enough data on something as short as the golf climb.  Might need it to be over a longer distance to have merit, but there aren't any real long climbs in wiss.  On the road, might be another story.  But, that's just one idea of how the data could be used.

I've basically got the initial idea, and know that the basic data is there.  Tried playing around with it on my own once, and ran out of talent before accomplishing anything useful.  Would be really interested to hear if you come up with anything!
Logged
likes the bikes.
pahearn
Gold Member
Expert
***
Posts: 170



View Profile Email
« Reply #18 on: December 05, 2008, 09:46:22 AM »
Yes I think you'll have a problem comparing data between two such short points, depending on the riding conditions (dry, slick, leaf covered and slippery, different/balding tires, etc). I think with a longer route those will have at least a little less of an effect on the overall time. What I have is a pretty stable ~7.21 mile mini-loop that I do during the week after work when I have under an hour to ride (which is basically all the time), and I've been able to track performance gains (and loss!) decently in that amount of time over the past bunch of years since I've gotten my Edge 205.

-pete
« Last Edit: December 05, 2008, 09:51:26 AM by pahearn » Logged
Wot no bike?
Lust4singletrack
The trail/ tool guy
PMBA Moderator
Jedi
*****
Posts: 1315


Keep trails friendly. Go by slow and say "Hello"

tgunz75@aol.com
View Profile Email
« Reply #19 on: December 05, 2008, 11:16:05 AM »
Well...I don't need any gps data to tell that I am waaaay slower than I used to be.
Logged
"Trails help humans make sense of a world increasingly dominated by pavement. They allow us to come more closely in touch with our natural surroundings, to soothe our psyches, to challenge our bodies, and to practice ancient skills"
Pages: [1]
  Print  
« previous next »
 
Jump to:  

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.4 | SMF © 2006-2008, Simple Machines LLC
Joomla Bridge by JoomlaHacks.com 		Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!
© 2009 The Philadelphia Mountain Biking Association
Joomla! is Free Software released under the GNU/GPL License.