Another rider added to the injured reserve list. Those of you who know Mohawk Dave should know that the "tightrope" section near the ink factory at Betzwood proved too much for the lad. He took a tumble over the bars and broke one of his ribs. So send him funny emails to make him laugh because he told me it really really hurts to laugh. mohawkdave@mohawkdave.com   He was riding my wife's Blur and was really loving the full suspension thing until the horrible mishap.  Luckily the bike came through unscathed.  Though he'll be off the bike for 3 or 4 weeks, he'll be riding before Donna...poor girl.

thanks for the great post turkey day ride at fair hill

http://trail.motionbased.com/trail/episode/view.do?episodePk.pkValue=7221636

i checked out rigwood nj sunday in the rain and snow, but actually did a trail run recon as i have thursday evening rides there if anyone frequwnts norh jersey

after the run i talked to a guy from the jersey shore that had just finishes a nj mtb . com ride

he highly recommended allaire for winter mtb

jjk


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And further on the machine.  It wasn't even cut to the full width of the blade in many spots as the one side of the blade was in the air off the down slope.   So the bench is fairly narrow, but the disturbed soil is wider.   This would be the case by hand as well.   For example the section closest to the creek crossing was hand cut.  Even with the machine the up slope grade is smoothed by hand, making it look wider at first.

Just scraping the top here would have left a organic loose tread that would have collapsed and/or bermed.  It would have been a mudfest with a very long cure time and more future work.  By cutting a bit deeper, you have more disturbed soil up and down slope, but we have a much more solid tread...and it is still pretty narrow.  After some weathering it might even be more narrow than the mudfest option.

Yep, yep and yep.

And for the record, not all, most, or even a big part of STI will be 5' wide. I believe EIT was, because of the raised nature of the trail. That trail is an exception and all sorts of "different". It's a long discussion in itself, that I don't want to go into.

But to make long story short, the trails will not be 5' wide. Even the new trail by wises that was cut with the machine, is only < 48" wide, that's the width of the blade. It will be less than 4' wide in few weeks and by spring with the new growth will be closer to 24-36" wide.

I believe that is more likely what the STI trails will be.

dz

Dmitri,

We could go back and forth on the fine details for sure.  And that shows that it's not a black and white issue.   My main point was that I think the "5ft is what you are going to get" is misguided, IMO. 

That said, my thoughts on your points:

1.  Traffic is good point to bring up in wiss.  Passing points are important.  These are main trails with tons of use, not a hidden rogue trail.  But that doesn't mean the whole trail has to be a passing point.  Where sight lines are good this could mean dedicated passing points, put in where needed or where the trail naturally allows.

2.  True on a very steep slope.  But to further your point, for a 5ft vehicle to use the steep slope trail that flatish part bench cut will need to be 5ft wide and relatively stable or the vehicle could get stuck or at worst go for a ride down the hill.

So what exactly happened?  What's the positive outcome of this discussion?

A new contour route is being put in to avoid a badly eroding unsustainable section of trail. Jesse, please explain to me why this is a problem. I'm not sure what it is you are asking for, or what you are trying to achieve with this discussion. How can I help?

Hmm,... threequarterloop.  I may have to try one of these.

Chuck, while I agree with the narrow trails being better for the environment and most of the user experience, there is one situation when the bench cut needs to be wider. And unfortunately, it is on very steep slope, for several reasons.

1. User experience and interaction. In a relatively flat area, like Demo I, the user can safely and easily step aside off the trail for passing, not so much on a 20%+ side slope, so trail needs to be wide enough for safe passing, be it hikers or mtb. That's positive user experience.

2. On a very steep side slope, the trail needs to be anchored, to prevemt crombling of the dirtn downslope side and collapsing trail. Again, need a slightly wider bench.

That said, the bench doesn't have to be 5' wide, but it cannot be 18" wide narrow ribbon. Some blance needs to be struck. Like you said in one of earlier posts. Cut the becn a little wider, it looks even wider due to disturbance. But in few month with leave litter and new growth it will narrow down, and only actively used part of the tread will be exposed, this naturally selecting what actual width is needed.

dz

Well, I added 11 miles on Friday at Fair Hill, and hopefully will get a few more rides in this month.  I've probably done a few where I forgot the GPS, too.  But it's neat to be able to look back through the year and see every ride.  It keeps a GPX track, too, so you can create a trail map from everywhere you've ridden.

We need a naked woman posing with a mountain bike very very very very fast before my we lose all of our members! Please help!!!!!!