Philadelphia Mountain Biking Association - Forums

There is no info on the MASS website yet beyond the date. Does anyone have any additional info? I'm considering doing the Enduro...

dz

If you click on the BikeReg icon, it will take you to all the info you'll need.  In the MASS forum page, someone has even posted a map for the sport/expert course.  I did a pre-ride Sat. morning.

Thanks, followed your advice and found it. I'm used to the link being under the name of the race on mass site, not on bikereg...

ok, 9 am start only 4 hours for the enduro... short...  :o

dz

Only 4 hours! You could do that with one titanium chainstay tied behind your back.

heh, something like that. for some reason I thought it was 6 hours... was hoping for a little bit more pain. but i guess 4 will do.

i didn't see even approx. mileage. but it did say that the course will not be finalized until a week prior to the race, so how did you all pre-ride it already?!

just curious how many laps should i be shooting for in 4 hours. i guess i'll hope for 40 miles...

dz

I may do the Enduro there too because Sport doesn't start until 2pm! I got an appointment later so it's either beginner or enduro. I did the Enduro last year (my only Enduro ever) and really 4 hours is what it would take me to ride the sport race anyway  ;D

There are a couple posts on the MASS forum page.  This was in one of the posts.
http://gpsbikemaps.com/index.php?p=races/ironhill08/map.php

Okay....I'm thinking of doing the enduro. Never done one before but don't feel like waiting around for the sport race. Do I get any points for doing it on a 36lb bike?

Dmitri, Jesse, what do you think?

No! In the enduro 36 lbs only works to your advantage, once you get it rolling you cannot stop it, it's all physics, inertia and stuffs...  :o   :P   :-*

But seriously, you need  alighter bike for things like this...

dz

Yeah, that 2pm start for you Sport racers is late.  Glad I'm racing Beginner at 9am. 

Lust4 - the downhill on that 36lb bike would be fun, but the climb after would really suck the 2nd, 3rd, 4th....whatever number of times you do it over that 4 hours.

Mmmmmmm....Well now I'm intrigued. Probably gonna try for a 3-4 hour ride at wiss in the next week to see if I handle it. Don't wanna fall apart during the race. I think Wiss is more challenging than Iron Hill? Am I right? Not real farmiliar with the course.

Iron hill is way easier than Wiss. The biggest elevation gain in the single hill is about 140', for comparison tallest hills in Wiss like the monster and such are about 200-250' gain.

Check out this map and elevation profile (http://www.gpsbikemaps.com/index.php?m=phototoursmenu&p=http://gpsbikemaps.com/index.php?m=bikes&p=http://gpsbikemaps.com/races/ironhill08/map.php)

dz

I only managed 3 or 4 laps of the course when I did it. That day was so hot and humid that I bagged the glasses from the start as we were basically in a cloud.

There was one significant fast long down hill that was peppered with the occasional buried bolder, so you really had to keep on edge. I definitely wish I had a Nomad for that! Rest of it was your basic nice but only mildly technical single track with a few ups and downs. I've no idea what the course will be this year but I'm guessing much of the same. I certainly enjoyed it.

The faster riders were probably lapping in less than a hour. If you cross the line before the end of the 4 hours you can do another lap, so be prepared to ride 4.5 hours or even more.

I could ride all day if my butt could handle the saddle that long. I stopped at the end of each lap to fill water and grabbed a sandwich a couple hours in. We'll be out there probably with beginners and experts so there is plenty of bikers on the trials with you. It's a blend between an individual experience and a race.

Last year Neshaminy took me 3:45 hours the the SS, so knowing ahead of time that Iron Hill was 4+ hours made it a lot easier compared.

SS riders will see and probably won't be impressed unless you have a double-crown fork. However you could be the first to run a Nomad SS :P

Wiss is definitely more challenging.  It was described to me Sat., before riding, that Iron Hill is like a cross between the Neshaminy and GCC/Sewell race courses.  After riding it, I'd have to agree.  The Mega Dip was fun too.

Thanks for the input.

I think what I am most concerned about for a long ride like this is the possibility of ITS (Irritable Taint Syndrome). What do you enduro guys recommend to combat ITS?

Bag Balm (http://www.bagbalm.com/)

The stuff is tenascious! I'd put it on, ride for hours, take a shower and there is still a film of it on my skin. Great for chafing and saddle sores prevention. Can be found in many local CVS (http://www.cvs.com/CVSApp/search/search_results.jsp?oss=1&removeAllFacets=true&addFacet=SRCH:bag%20balm), if they don't have it on the shelf, talk to the manager and they will order it. CVS carries it. It's only $7 or so a tin.

I've been using it for over a year after I realized that other chamous cremes washed away with sweat in 1 hour or so and stopped working. I heard others had used it for longer with similar good results.

Some say it can destroy chamous, but my Perl Izumi has been fine in over a year...

dz

dz, nice find ~ been using this long?

Quote from web site:

Helps soothe small injuries, rash chapping; massage on caked bag. Softens and moistens skin.

Here's another quote from the site:


...They help keep the teat canal open for easier milking.

So...where do I put this?

My problem isn't chafing, it's weight. I also keep my bars really high causing fewer endos and taking pressure off my wrists and hands, but I'm still sitting way too long and heavy, and it's just the pressure on the saddle. I can't ride on the road for more than 2 minutes before it becomes unbearable. At least with MTB you are always moving; back forth, standing, etc... But on long rides it still becomes too much.

That's one of the reasons I liked Singlespeed; you are out of the saddle twice as often. I'm trying to incorporate SS style riding with the gears, but still on long rides I'm being abused. I tried bigger and bigger saddles before I found that actually the smaller ones were more comfortable. It's where you're bones are placed, not the size of your derrière.  

Hey Tom, you make want to try this as well...

http://www.bikemannetwork.com/biking/p/ACSKIN/TAASSOS1

There is also a brand called Chamois Butt'r.

Once you use it, there is no going back...you may find that you like it so much for riding that you will put it on in the morning before work too...


Jeremy

Hey Jesse,

Have you considered trying one of the Brooks saddles?

http://www.brookssaddles.com/

They are supposed to be very supportive, although they apparently take some time to break in. Trophy in University City carries them.

Hope this helps!

I swear by BUTT GREASE. Yes that's the real name. I got it at a shop in Fruita. It WORKS! Ahhhhhhhhhhhhh  :-*

The hubby is thinking about entering the beginner race.  I'd like to come down w/ the baby, but I'm wondering if there's a place I could hang out while I'm watching.  And if there are other people coming down just to watch.  I've never been to a MASS race, so I'm not sure what it's like for spectators. 
Any info would be great! 
Thanks!

That post has CODE all over it....   :D

In other news, there is now DZ's new house brand:  www.dz-nuts.com/ (http://www.dz-nuts.com/)

About Brooks, I have a practically brand new Swift Ti if anyone wants it.   Did not work for me.   Had one pretty comfy spot, didn't allow for movement.  Had a hard shelf off the back that put the boys in danger while going down the really steep stuff.  And did not last.  This one is new cause they were nice enough to warranty the first.

Hey RAW, I wouldn't' say it's great for spectators but the beginner race is reasonably short and there will be so much going on you won't be bored. Enduro racers will be out, the Experts will be warming up, and tons of people will be about including spectators. It's definitely a mini bike fest.

I'd bring one of those fold out chairs and keep it at at the PMBA tent.  I'd be concerned about having the baby there if it is super hot like it was last year. And of course, there will be a lot of bikes about so you really have to look out when moving around...  but you should be fine.

Other courses are great for spectators. Some races have lots of laps or like at Granogue and Marysville you can walk around a bit to catch the racers come through at multiple points. If the beginner race is two laps you'll be able to see him come through too...

thanks for the link and yes, I have heard of them. But unless the saddle can take 30 pounds off my bodacious bod I don't think it will do much.

I am open to trying new things though too...       

Also, I can't claim to be 250lb anymore, I just weighed in at 238 ;D  Actually last time I weighed about 3 months ago I was 253, so that is good drop; I hope to never see an 1/8 of a ton again.

Tom, I saw that too and had included it on my initial post but then went back and removed it  :-[  Too funny...

There's only one link on that site that makes reference to cycling.

Thanks for the info!  The weather is a deciding factor for us going.  If it's too hot, we'd have to stay home.  Hope to see you all there!

Hope you guys make it out. It is a cool vibe. Some are serious about their results, but many are just there to race against themselves and enjoy what is essentially a big ass group ride on a marked course. When someone that is fast comes up behind me I just let them go by. You will get your occasional tight ass that gets mad cause your in his/her way, but I don't let it bother me. Good times.

The hubby is pretty much definate, he's checking out the course this weekend.  Aubrey and I are a maybe... very weather and mood dependant (her mood, not mine)  ;D.

yeah, as the name might've clued you in  :P (BAG balm) it's a product for farmers, for milking cows.

But hell, it works!!!

Apply it wherever you have chafing issues. There I openned that door wide open for all your innapropriate comments!  :-*

What's really funny is I did not what "bag" meant, and I thought they were talking about...ball bag, a slang term that I've heard to descibe a man's "boys"

So I'm thinking: Cool. I'll just slather this stuff on my ball bag, as the name suggest. Wrong bag.

I'm torn between adding either another sarcastic comment or desperately hoping that this thread will die...

Yea that's right. I'm still keeping this thread goin! Check this stuff out.

http://www.pricepoint.com/popups/popZoom.htm?page=popZoom.htm&zoomimg=Z_400%20DZNCH8.jpg&altText=DZ-Nuts%20High%20Viscosity%20Chamois%20Cream%204oz%20Tube%20Only%20at%20PricePoint.com&title=Current%20Zoom%20Image (http://www.pricepoint.com/popups/popZoom.htm?page=popZoom.htm&zoomimg=Z_400%20DZNCH8.jpg&altText=DZ-Nuts%20High%20Viscosity%20Chamois%20Cream%204oz%20Tube%20Only%20at%20PricePoint.com&title=Current%20Zoom%20Image)

Where are my royalties?!

dz

Yea isn't that great! I saw that and I was cracking up. Dude this stuff was made for you.

LOL! that's great!!  :D

Sorry I don't have any comments about Bag Balm or Butt Grease, but it looks like if you plan to pre-register for Iron Hill using Bikereg, the deadline is today at 5pm.  It'll save you $10.

http://www.bikereg.com/events/register.asp?eventid=6424

John

Thanks John!

1: for getting this thread back on track and away from ball talk

2: reminding me to register! Whew!

See you there.

yeah, thanks! I just registered.

talking about all the seat problems I just busted my saddle in two yesterday. First time I've seen that  :o

Check this out


Posted by: "JayZ" jjz_fsvs@yahoo.com   jjz_fsvs
Thu Aug 14, 2008 9:04 am (PDT)
Since the MASS forum is temporarily down PLEASE pass this info on to any group email lists, blogs, etc so we can communicate with the MASS audience.

Online registration was closed 12 hours early to provide enough time to send the data to the timing company to overlay the files into the MASS database format, etc.

To make up for short changing you the time to pre-reg the DAY OF late fee is $5. That makes the fees:
$35 Beginner, Sport, Expert, Enduro
$15 Juniors

If you need more info email ironhillmtb@fsvsonline.com

"Errhehehehe"; Scooby Doo

Lots of fun today.  A great place for your first race.  Fun seeing the gang down there.

Nancy took some good shots which are at http://picasaweb.google.com/jpearce08055/IronHillRace8_08

Thank you Jon, these are great.

On the other hand, does anyone have an accurate distance and elevation gain for the course? GPS? Cyclocomputer?

dz

Jon- those are awesome! well man we are no longer race virgins! LOL.. that definitely was a lot of fun today! 8)

Yea it was great to see you guys out there (Jon and Rob) trying your first race. So are you hooked?

Race report:
This was my first endurance race. A lotta fun. I really like the endurance format, with the pit area where you can stash all your stuff and just come in, say hi to folks while you suck down a gel pack and then be on your way again. Not sure if I could do this for 6 hours though. Four was plenty for me. I was having a good ride until just passed 2 hours in. I was trading places with Dmitri for a while and trying hard to keep him in sight on the climbs on his 20lb titanium ss. Lap times were fast, little over 30 minutes.

Then, on one of the very fast rocky downhills I get a flat. So I throw in my only tube and continue. Dmitri is long gone now and so is the small talk. So I find my flow and am having fun on this sweet flowy course. Another lap or two goes by; this is about the time that I lost count as my normal brain functions, like counting, were on the back burner. Then I try to do a silly gap over a rock garden and case a baby head Pssssttttttt. Dam. So I take a seat, pull out my patches and I'm all out. Man! This sucks. Luckily Jacylin came by and hooked me up with a patch. Nice! Thanks Jacylin. I go to blow it up and discover that there are two holes, and one patch. Dam! So now I'm just kind of sitting there in a daze and wondering if I'm done.

Luckily Dmitri finally laps me, which I normally would not be happy about, except he hooks me up with a tube! He says "I have 26" with a fake british accent and throws it to me. Thanks! I unroll it...it's a 29! I really did not want to dnf so I crammed the big tube into my tire and blew it up. Good to go. So a 29er tube will work in your 26 if you were wondering. Finished the rest of my race and felt good until the last lap were I was in total survival mode.

Now I'm pretty sure I completed seven laps but the timing people had me at 6. I believe they missed me once cause Kelly was counting my laps and confirmed that I did 7, so I disputed it and I'm hoping they fix it. Not that it matters, but, there was nobody else there on a 36lb bike so I'd like it if the laps were accurate. Good times.

I have no idea where they came from. I never bought 29er tubes, I always used 26er tubes in the 29er tires, and that works too very well. I was 100% sure I was giving you a 26er... Sorry. Look at it this way, you have a tube for your to be built 29er. heh


Tom, Sorry to disappoint you but.... I think Kelly was overly optimistic in her counting, she thought I did 8 or 9 laps, but I only did 7. The winners got 8 or 9 laps.... And if I did lap you when you had the second flat, you did one less lap... :-(

I'm too tired to say anything. I had to pull off 95 for a nap on the way home. And I've been dozing on the couch since. Well done all, and great pictures...

I overheard the winners saying they did 10 laps.

That is possible. I would think that really fast guys were on 25 minute lap pace, and that would allow them to finish the 9th lap before the 4 hour cut off and let them thru for the 10th.

I finished the 7th lap in 4:01 time. And I have been lapped by few people.

I hope they are vell organized and will post official results soon.

dz

results are posted

http://www.prologsoftware.com/proracingtiming/results/r08_16_08Final.htm

tom, sorry I didn't give you 29er tube; in retrospect it would have been worth a try. And it wouldn't have done me much good as I'd given my pump away to someone else (he returned it).

Jesse, Jon, Rob, everyone! Nicelly done!!!

Holly molly what a pace! There are some stupid fast people out there!

dz

Nice pictures, good job everyone!

I AM! That had to be hardest/most fun I've had riding. I started falling asleep early last night & then went to bed replaying the day in my head.. ended up being awake for another 2hrs all hopped up on adrenaline again! dammit! dah well.. I had a lot of fun out there. I'm thinking about Bear Creek but I'm definitely in for more races next year!

Race report (from a total beginner's perspective)-
 
I wanted to start out in the back of the pack (on purpose) to see how much nervous energy I could dump before entering the course. But of course, the timeguy yelled "go" & fight or flight kicked in & started going at a much faster rate then I wanted. First turn into the course I ALMOST wipe out because heart's racing faster than me at this point. I get my composure back on & begin my race. First lap seemed to just buzz right passed me. I didn't pay attention to my lines, other racers around me, or anything. I was just out pedalling on autopilot from adrenaline. I found one guy who seemed to be riding at my same pace so I stuck with him. Nothing seperated me & the red specialized in front of me. On the rock descent he slowed up which forced me to get around him or I'd have hit his tire. Before I knew it I was at the final climb & I was out staring at the second lap. Second lap, get around the rocky downhill & for some reason my brain shut off & I stopped pedalling & was coasting. I then thought "DUDE WHAT ARE YOU DOING?! MOVE!!" I turned around & there had to be a dozen riders behind me now coming on strong so I hightailed it back to race pace. I turned to the next section & saw my friend about 50ft ahead of me & I knew that was who I needed to keep in sight & catch. He saw me at that point too & gave a smile so I knew it was on now. I chased him all the way through the course & kept him in sight. We turned into the big hill & I think he realized I was on his tail & only about 30ft from him at this point. I found out later he was thinking of stopping but kept thinking "Rob's right behind me!" the whole time on the climb. I hit the top of the climb only to CRASH coming down on the switchback..yep I was pissed since this was the only crash I had. I saw my friend pull away & I knew I wouldn't catch him. Dah well, next time..  I had a good time racing & I now see why people get hooked on this. After finishing & being totally wiped out, I just took in the conversations around me. Racers are weird at the beginning, some quiet, some totally serious, some-like me-just look freaked before the race. But at the end everyone's high-fiving talking & laughing about how they'll catch each other the next time. Reeaallly cool scene to be around.  Nice job everyone in their respective classes.. 8)
   
 

Great report Rob! Awesome.

You will like Bear Creek. It's a real mountainbikers course, with plenty of rocks and sweet lines. It is more technical than Iron Hill. You can go up there and preride it anytime. Just follow the loop clockwise. There is only really one loop so you can't get lost. It's my favorite course but I'll be riding in SoCal so I'm gonna miss it this year.

thanks- I had a great time plus didn't mind watching all you enduro people making laps & stopping to eat/drink.. Although I think my fav point was Jesse's victory "hoagie loop". I think I saw that that last loop took him the most time..LOL! 

Yeah I wouldn't mind checking out Bear Creek now that I know it's really close. Hey check out that mountainbike Bill guy's website if you're out in SoCal, he's got all sorts of trail reviews for out there. I'm thinking to try to hook up w/him when I'm in San Diego in October to do some rides.

Jesse- Lap 7; 0:50:18.21- the hoagie loop :D

It was an interesting experience for a beginner.  I didn't push to get to get to the front of the pack at the start 'cause I figured that there were a lot of better, faster riders out there.  That was certainly true, but there was also someone who was pretty fast but probably hadn't learned to ride at Wiss and didn't handle the trees and rocky uphills as well as some others who were following him.  He finally stopped and several of us were able get around him.  I told a guy in a BikeLine jersey to go ahead of me 'cause I figured that he was faster - he thanked me and said that he "owed me one", which was a nice intro to course courtesy.  I saw a lot of that - people moving aside for faster riders to pass them.  After about 20 minutes I started getting a pain in my side, which I recognized from years of rollerblading to be a sign of dehydration, easily cured by downing 1/2 bottle of Gatorade.  Trouble was, I was breathing so hard that I couldn't drink.  I had to slow down to stop panting so that I could get a drink.  Near the end of first lap I hit something that flipped me completely over the bars.  Couldn't tell what it was - the only thing in the trail was a medium-sized rock that shouldn't have been any problem for my 29" wheels.  Fortunately I wasn't hurt and kept riding.  The traffic thinned out on the second lap, but I was so tired that I went into "survival ride" mode, with the result that my second lap was 3 minutes slower than the first.  But at least I finished, and ended up in the middle of the Masters 2 Beginner class.  I have no idea how the guys who rode 3 or 4 laps survived - there's no way that I could have handled another one. 

Am I hooked?  Probably not, but I'll definitely try it again.  I think I have another year to race as Beginner, but then I think I'd have to race as Sport Masters 3, except that there isn't a class for 60+.  I'll make that decision when ir comes up, I guess.

Thanks to everyone for the encouragement, and to Dmitri for the opinion that the course was easier than Wiss (true), which game me the confidence to try it.  I do have GPS tracks of the course, which I'll try to get published soon.

Jon

Update - the GPS track from my Forerunner was really inaccurate with a lot of straight lines indicating interpolation between points where it had lost the GPS track.  So I don't have a good track.  Sorry.

I came by the first loop at 40 minutes (which included the prologue), and realized that if I could go under 40 min per lap I could finish six before the 4hr cut off and start the 7th. So I ended up riding paced for the whole four hours, stopping as quick as possible for fill up the camelpack. I went through over 250oz. The course had less elevation than the Wiss, and the climbs didn’t seem as intense as the downhills, so that worked for me.

After 3 laps I was tired but I knew the course by then and knew where to rest and stay smooth on the downs and paced on the ups, and where to crank to make it over a mini technical, or whatever. But on the 5th I started getting delirious and I couldn't get a friggen song from Cats out of my head! I like a good musical, as any straight dude in touch with his metro-sexual side, but it was pure torture repeating in your head, and I started thinking I'd made wrong turns because I'd swear I was going over terrain I'd never seen before.

On the start of the 6th lap though I saw I had 45+ minutes to get around, and I filled up the camelbak and just kept pacing it. I was nervous something would go wrong, but stayed alert and felt confident. I made it around the whole loop with no dabs, which surprised me because I was so tired. But I also knew that if I dabbed or got off the bike I'd fall apart. It was really a six lap race for me, and you've got it bonkers, what kept me going was craving the sandwich, and knowing I could walk the final lap if I wanted. It was good; I ate the sandwich, had a nice cold drink, took a potty break at a kind tree, chatted with other like-minded idiots on the trail, and walked anything that seemed challenging. I can't believe it only took 50 minutes for that lap!

The bike’s a mess, my hands hurt, my feet hurt, I feel like I’ve been assaulted, but I somehow had a lot of fun. I didn't move from the couch when I got home, and I made it to TMD this morning. So I survived.

I'm glad you tried it Jon and Rob. Even if people are not into racing they should try it just for the experience, because it really is different than your average group ride. I'm hooked, and I'm happy that 99% of the interactions people have are positive. I was lapped by other Enduros, and passed by every Expert, and I didn't' hear one negative comment. That doesn't mean with racing that there aren’t people getting frustrated, or just some jerks, but for the most part everyone is cool, and the experts racing for money seem to be the most cordial of the lot.   

I’m back to the couch.

Good job on your first race , Rob and Jon. Rob, your hooked, Jon, a least you got to experiencewhat it is all about. If there is a next time, pre-ride the course once to see what it is like.

Rob, bring the long travel bike to the next race. It is a technical place. I will try to pre-ride it at least once, so maybe you want to carpool.

I missed your guys, starting at 2pm, and trying to go as fast as possible for 3 laps, including mega-dip. Didn't go all out because at 8am Sunday (today), I had a metric century (100k) road ride in Lancaster County. Not much recovery time, but JUST made it through both rides.

I may try enduro next year. Going as fast as possible for 1.5 to 2 hours is not my strong point, but I can ride all day if hydrated and pace myself. And you really get your money's worth!

Great race everyone. 
I'm disappointed in my lap times, but I had fun...minus my crash on lap 2 and my bum ankle.  I realized that I could have gone much faster, since I was feeling pretty good Saturday night.  Anyhow, I'm delieriously happy that I completed the entire Enduro series (5 enduro races).   Which was my only goal.  Can't wait for next season... Go team PMBA!

is the mass forum still down?  Does anyone know where the pics are?  I know I had a ton of flashes going off in my face.

Good job to everyone who rode endurance.  No way am I ready to try one yet.  Beginner races are enough for me. 

Rob, you're definitely hooked.  You probably had the same pre-race jitters that I experienced back in May at my first race.  After that first race, I was thinking, that was fun, can't wait to do it again.

Jon, was that you with the Cannondale F29 for sale?  If so, what size is it?

Let's all get ready for Bear Creek.

John

Yeah, that was me with the F29.  It's a large frame.  Those big wheels did a nice job on Saturday, too (I rode the GF 29er, not the Cannondale).

Bear Creek, eh?  Hmmm...  I rode it once years ago before I got serious about mtb and it was too toug, but maybe I've gotten better.  Let me know if anyone is planning a pre-ride trip.

If it was a medium, I might have some interest.

Hey- congrats John (Jdurk) on taking second place in your class! Well done!  :)

Well, I have a hacksaw...