Philadelphia Mountain Biking Association - Forums

I've started this thread so anyone who wants can update trail conditions on regular basis. This time of year with the thaw freeze cyles it would almost be good to have daily updates. Frozen is good.

1/6/2008 Muddy. Much of the park, especially the Roxbourough side of park is not good for users right now.

Great thread...Great Idea for a thread... I always try to get a feel for the condition before I decide weather to ride or not.  There is nothing worse than getting stoked for a ride only to realize that it is too wet to do so.  Thanks for the heads up.
-nick

Idea for the admins, but can we have a "trail conditions" thread always posted permanently at the top of each section instead of having to search or dig through the posts?? That way any newbie’s or us oldies ::) can update it when needed, especially this time of year!!!!

I just made it a sticky. It will always be at the top of the list of threads.

dz

Is there anyway to put this right on the home page?  So whenever anyone comes to the sight, it's right there.  Not sure how it could be kept current or who would be in charge of updating.

It sounds like a good idea, but I'm not sure if my suggestion is too much of a hassle to maintain.

I already asked our web guy if it's feasable.

1/7/08 Trails are still soft.

I saw a lot of riders out there today that could not resist the warm temps. I did some needed trail work.

1/8/08 Trails are in decent shape. Few usual soft spots but if you can ride before the next rain I would go for it.

1/9/08 Good to go.

1/11/2008 Trails are not suitable for users right now.

1/12/2008

Walked the dog on the Indian trail today and it looked OK. Typical wet spots, like at the top of the climb after the Indian heading towards Bell's Mill, where the big exposed root ball of the fallen tree is, but the majority of that trail at least was dry. Had a camera along, so pics are here:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/repoman/sets/72157603698085444/

I'm planning on using that set to upload trail photos when conditions are questionable and I happen to be in the park. Hopefully it might be helpful to someone.

Nice job man! YEa we rode today at 2:30 and it was nice. A little soft but not bad at all. Amazing how fast it drys out when it's not freezing. The more info we have from more people, the better...

Has anyone been on Demo #2 recently? it's been couple of weeks for me and I hear that Demo #1 is getting really messy now, but more surprisingly that Demo #2 is a mess as well?... Is that true? I might take a walk today after work... Tho it will be dark by then, and I don't have a flash light in the car with me...

dz

I rode Demo #2 (the Indian, right?) on Sunday and I thought it was in great shape. The pics I linked above are from that section on Saturday. I'd say Demo #1 is a bit messy from the thaw/rain and subsequent use. The section right before you hit the Wigard connector, where that large sinkhole is to your left, got hit pretty hard.

I was on Demo 1 yesterday and I thought it was in good shape. Rode it both ways and for the most part it's been draining fairly well. A few sticky/greasy spots, but nothing compared to the other sections on Rox. side of the park. It does have what appears to be a huge sink hole at the top of the trail?? I was on Demo 2 last weekend (Indian Head) and thought that held up fairly well. The recent re-route (think it's by Gorgas Lane) was really mushy/greasy!!!

great pictures, good to see hands on effort regarding trail conditions, I rode Belmont yesterday and was impress by how well the trails held up, it was a flowing day on the bike at the plateau. :P

K

I walked down and then I rode (I almost ate sh!t the first time down) down, back up and then down demo2 again on saturday and thought it was in pretty good shape. It's getting beat in nicely. Couple small spots but nothing that really caught my attention. There was like one hole that I seen and if I had my folding shovel I could have fixed it right there.

Just got back from a ride.  As of 10:30ish most of the park is still frozen, hard, and fast.  Warmer temps may be a problem later in the day, but everything was pretty solid.  If it thaws many sections will be pretty muddy. 
nick

Nice Nick! Damn I was going to go this morning but got busy with work. I may head out at noon. Thanks for the update!

Let us know.  I think I missed my window to go this morning and by the time I get out this afternoon it will probably be a no go.

 :(

I would be up for a morning ride next week if anyone is up for it.

Rob

Rob...I don't work in the winter.  I can ride any day if your interested.  LMK
Nick

I should be available.   My work slows a bunch in the winter, but is still unpredictable.   I'f I don't have anything going on, I'm down for morning rides.

I'm off work on Monday, Max is off as well. We are trying to figure out the time to ride

Monday looks frozen all day, so any time seems to work. 

I don't function that well early, but anything works for me right now.

I have no concept of time until March.  I can ride any time.
nick

Rode Today - (Thursday)  10 - 12pm..  trails were nice but starting to get a little soft by the end.   My guess is snow and rain will make it a mess..  Saturday early AM might be ok if it gets real cold on Fri Night ... however,  SUNDAY will be the day to ride as it will be frozen SOLID and fast.  Althouth a high of only 20F. Let's bundle up and hit it Sunday...!   Clown, Kman, Hunter, etc.. how bout a Wiss or Belmont ride Sunday at like 11 or 12?

Thats a good time for me. High noon wheels out ride from the locker room?

SUNDAY-SUNDAY-SUNDAY!

Sunday!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! It's on.

1/19 Pics (http://www.flickr.com/photos/repoman/sets/72157603698085444/)

Sunday should be great if it freezes. Some sections thawed today.

Trails were frozen pretty much everywhere except the usual suspects. This coming week should be great.

1/20 Pics (http://www.flickr.com/photos/repoman/sets/72157603698085444/)

Demo 1 shows a lot of use from earlier in this week when it was soft.   All nicely frozen now, you could tell what tires everyone was using.

1/20/2008 Frozen ground means some fast cornering. Good times. Tires stuck like velcro.

Velcro??....until you hit an ice patch when your back tire spun like a windmill! ....at least that what happened to me.....once.   ;D

Just FYI as of 8:00p tonight the trails are frozen and dry and very fast, currently 35F. Tomorrow's supposed to be clear and high of 34-38F so it should be the same if the ground temp drops more tonight and it doesn't get too warm tomorrow (Wednesday 1/23).

-pete

Wow thanks pete. I was afraid they would be a mess after todays rain. Good lookin out.

Thanks for the info.  Was wondering how it was. I rode Monday and they were SOLID as a rock.

Thursday and Friday look good as highs will be under 30F.   I'm gonna try to make the Thursday night ride at VG.

 

A little late for the weekend, but some pics:

Thumbs-up (http://www.flickr.com/photos/repoman/2220791508/in/set-72157603698085444/), way up.

Frozen solid (http://www.flickr.com/photos/repoman/2220967530/in/set-72157603698085444/)  with a tiny bit of thawing in a couple places today.

Great conditions!

Looking good Repo.

FYI as of 10:00a the trails are overall messy. I biked to work today and rode the trails from the southwestern end up to around the Janette Street entrance, and they've been utterly decimated by people riding them in the past few days. Significant widening is starting to occur in areas. I dropped down to Forbidden for the rest of the way, and from there you can see how saturated the earth is (read: Forbidden Drive is soaked).

-pete

Gawd Damn it!

I think it's time to start patrolling the trails on the days like these.
We need to break this attitude :
"Oh it's warm and comfortable for me, I must ride, hell or hihg water! Forget everyone else and what I'm doing to the trails, it's all about me, I want to ride in warm temps! Me! Me! Me!"

 >:(

dz

Ugg.  Sounds like we might need a wet trail rider taser system.  Equip it with video then post the results to a page with a ton of google adds = pmba profit.   :D

Seriously though, with the rain expected tonight/tomorrow and then again this weekend, it might be a while till it's good to go again.  If that end is messed up, I hate to see what demo 1 looks like.

Yeah sorry for the bad news. I should emphasize that it's no worse than it gets every single year during the rainy season, but it is annoying when it happens. I feel like I have to limit my preaching, because for me since I live a block or so from a trailhead it's easier for me to just say "oh well" and call it off. I feel bad for the guys (like you, D!) that actually drive your cars from some distance to the park... it's probably harder to resist.

-pete

There are alternatives. We've bailed from the rides in the past and done hill-repeats to still get the work out in, and all. I'm itching to ride, but will bag my ride tonight. No biggie. What's a week or two compared to having these trails for years.

People just have no sense of responsibility now days. And are loosing sense of perspective.

Oh well. And Pete, don't limit your preaching. You're perfect candidate to check on the conditions and start preaching for the rest of us not to go, since you're so close and it's so easy for you to drop in for a quick check!

Thx
dz

Is there any way, including permission from the FPC, to post signs advising people to stay off the trails on days when the conditions are horrible?

Reality is we could put armed guards and electric fences out there but people will still ride their bikes, walk their dogs, ride their horses, etc...

I think signs would help and educate, and peer pressure in the user community is always good. But it will never stop everyone.

I'm not advocating encouraging people use the trails all the time, but I reckon we need to think about building these trails even more sustainable than the initial plan. They are going to have to survive the current and increased use that they'll have, during both rain and shine.

Perhaps most of the trail underneath should be layered with a rock bed, like we did at the creek crossing on the Chestnut Hill side back in June or the mud pit near near Livezy (also chestnut hill side).  It would be a shame to put out $6million of cost and countless thousands of volunteers hours into the trail and then realize that it's not sustainable anyway.

Check out this picture Coyle just posted:

http://www.bbtc.org/recreation/show_image.php?image_id=2979

what is that 'rock' path layer they put in? Can we layer the some of the worst trails underneath with something like that?

That is what I am talking about.  A sign that reads, "If the following conditions are present.... please stay off the trails.  Use of trails during these conditions causes the following effects..."

I'm sure other municipal parks somewhere have signs like this, it just seems like common sense.

Yeah, I think signs are a good first step.  A bit of guilt and the evil eye too...

As far as armoring, at times like this, it seems to me you would have to armor pretty much the whole trail system.  Lot of work and maybe not best thing as far as keeping things natural.

Refering to the picture, I've seen the same material use at  whistler-- it was a gigantic rubber-plastic mat,-- ( I don't know the exact name ) on a huge burm, to help sustain a high speed turn.  It was a huge turn with a lot of wear, and helped stabilize the turn. The honeycomb pockets hold dirt.  as far as the trails, educating people and riders is a slow turning ship, that will turn with time, we need to insure the update on the front is accurate to make it reliable for others use, also, it is our duty as riders to be responsible, and be educated about the trails we ride. Informing other riders and trail users of who we are and what we do is a long term solution to helping keep people off the trials when the conditions suck.

Rock armoring the entire park sounds great on paper, but were are all the rocks going to come from.  Does every inch of the park need armoring..... NO, we need to educate the users of he trail, that takes time, I am open to any ideas one may have to help get the word out.  I rode Kelly drive on Saturday into the city and it was great, a shot of jack for the way back. ::)

The blocks in those pics are made from aggregate, similar to cinder blocks. If anyone thinks we should put them anywhere on the natural surface trails in the Wiss, you better lay down the crack pipe and hit some heroin. Or I will just slap you silly if you want...  ??? ??? ??? ??? ???

My last sentence on my previous post has typo's  :P

..and it was modified a bit....

ahh, the forum, the place to exchange ideas.

I'd rather lay some rock under the trail then have no trail to worry about.

Kman, you can always edit your posts later; just hit the modify button.

K, look for the "modify" button and click it. It's EASY. Sheesh, Then I can stop deleting your posts  :P

I am all for armoring or stone pitching the trails. But that is a lot of work and expensive. I was referring to the NON-natural looking pattern blocks that are used at bike parks like WHistler and Seattle. THey definitely have a purpose and place, just not in the Wiss, unless they are under the Henry Ave bridge at OUR bike park.  ;D  And I LOVE that huge wooden wall ride! We gotta make a few of those...

Bottom line is it would be best to keep as many users off the trails when they are wet as possible.  I think the sustainable trails project should make everything good for normal conditions.  We might get a few wrong here and there, but that can be fixed.   However if ppl are in there when the trails are wet they are gonna be berming the trails, making them hold more water....making people avoid the wet spots...making the trail wider...and so on.  The only solution to this is to basically rock everything that isn't currently rock which would be a nearly impossible project because of scale (and probably screw up the feel of the park).

I think our home page conditions light is awesome, signs in the park should come eventually and hopefully they will explain the results of riding when its wet.   It would be extra cool to somehow have the signs in the park have conditions like our home page (or like "smokey the bear" signs).  I'm not sure how that would work and without someone official out there I'm not even sure it would mean anything (to some folks).   Add to this that conditions can change in a matter of hours and it really comes down to people using their head and being responsible.    :-\

I think the key is to focus on everyone being able to know when to ride and when not to ride, and  maybe some bikers who go out on the trail will know that they shouldn't be there and abort the ride, or which trails are good and which trails are bad. That is what PMBA can do, bring riders together and educate them. Hopefully they will never get out on the trails in the 1st place when they are muddy and sloppy.

My neighbor is a scum bag who doesn't recycle anything. (I'm not saying recycling will save humans but...) he throws everything out in a heap and barely even uses bags or trash cans. I usually have to pick up after him on trash day, especially when it's windy... Some people in this world just don't care and/or just don't get it...

Education is the key.  Believe it or not some people don't know riding on wet trails causes damage.  I used to be one of them until I was educated.  Most of us who have been riding for a while and get involved with groups like PMBA think it's common knowledge.  Believe me, it's not.  All I'm saying is signage like the ones they use Ride-More will help.  http://www.richmond-more.org/home/

 

Lets not forget that hiking on the trails is the same as riding on them. Every user impacts the tread so don't feel like riders are the only ones who are guilty. This was the perception that was being pawned off by the bike haters back in the day. They were probably hiking on wet trails, looked down saw tire marks and said "look the mountainbikers are so irresponsible ruining the trails". They were dong the same thing by walking on them, but did such a good job pointing out the tire marks which are more easily identified that this misconception is still widely believed.

Two words : "Hoof prints"

dz

I was just going to mention the horses.  Is this the proper order of impact on trail conditions from most to least?

Horses
Bikes
Hikers

Or do bikers and hikers affect the trails the same?

I think it depends on how much traffic a trail gets for each user type. For instance, horses definitely can cause greater damage to trails, but since there are far fewer horses and a whole lotta bicycles in the Wissahickon, the majority of the trail problems are caused by bicycles IMO.

-pete

There were studies done to indicate that hiker and bikers exhort the same impact on the trails.
Great point, Pete, it's the number of users, and I would hazard a guess that between the xc joggers, hikers and dog walkers there are slightly more pedestrians than bikers, with horses trailing way way back

dz

Maybe if we do eventually post signs it could help educate some of the other users aside from bikers....like the ignorant horse riders that we encountered on the last TMD that thought we closed a, "perfectly good trail and replaced it with a bike trail."  Paul tried to explain that the closed trail was totally eroded, but he didn't want to hear any of it.

On that note, maybe we should try to get our trail conditions graphic on the FOW and Wanderers site.  It's not just useful for us...

As I read more and more books and articles on trails and get educated, I know that the main problem with the Wiss trails are not people using them, it's their design. I am fascinated by these books, and then applying what I learn to the actual trails in my backyard. Riding, or any other use, in the mud will not "ruin" any trails. What it does is "displace" the tread materials, whether it be rock, dirt, shit, etc. thereby requiring more frequent trail maintenance. Trails are always changing, no matter if anyone uses them or not. That's what mother Earth does, she changes all the time.

As humans who want to recreate, we try to make these trails usable for our purposes (Wiss=multi use) and design/build them to the best of our abilities to make them last as long as possible between maintenance periods. However, due to trails designed for industry rather than recreation, the Wiss has to be totally redesigned first, hence the Sustainable Trails Initiative. PMBA has done great work in doing band-aid fixes in the interim. 

Soooooooooo, when I see someone riding wet or muddy trails, I get upset because it will require us to get out there and maintain them more often. Nobody is RUINING the trails so I will never use that term. If I ride when it's soft I am less upset with myself because I have logged over 100 hours maintaining them. But when I see someone out there who DOES NOT PARTICIPATE and help maintain them, I have a right to get upset. Our signs should read: "Look, if you MUST ride when it's wet, then YOU BETTER SHOW UP AT THE NEXT TMD or we will hunt you down!"  ;D OK, maybe something to that effect but more politically correct.

My advice to everyone who has strong feelings on this topic: educate yourself so you can speak intelligently about it and you will be far more effective when talking to people who are ignorant on the subject.

Lou, this could turn into an academic long drawn discussion, but I'll try to be breif.

Sustainable trail = No, to very little maintenance required over the time. Designed in such a way that it maintains itself, but properly shedding water, and withstanding to normal use under normal conditions

Riding/hiking/jogging/horse riding on the soft and muddy trails displaces the material. Creating ruts and puddles, thus preventing the trail from shedding water properly as it was designed to do. Thus requiring maintenance, and frequent one. Thus the trail is not sustainable anymore.

The trails itself migh tnot be ruined. But the sustainable trail and our efforts have been.

Case example is Demo #1. There are spots on it where riding/walking/etc on it when it was muddy created insloped and badly bermed trail, thus trapping the water and creating catch 22 of making those spots even muddier when it rains. Thos few sections of that trail seezed to be sustainable. At least until it'll be repaired.

just my $02.0

dz

We're probably splitting hairs, but the reality of our situation is this:

1) All trails no matter how well built will require maintenance because mother nature changes them. This process is excelerated by using them in less than optimal conditions.
2) See my other post regarding my slob neighbor, we will NEVER stop some people from using the Wiss whenever they feel fit. This is America man!
3) The more we educate all users, and plead with them to spare the trails when they are muddy, the more we will be doing to help reduce the maintenance intervals.  

Cool on the front page info Lou!

Thoughts on your points....

1.  Is there any info about how much extra damage the trails receive when used under poor conditions.  Seems to me that one user in really bad conditions could displace the material of many many (hundreds?) of users under normal conditions.   Maybe if users saw it in this way, they would rethink their actions.

2.  A$$holes are a$$holes, but we should make it known that they are a$$holes.  :D

Other than that, I think demo 1 will be better, it's still just a little fragile from being newer.   But it is a great example of what can happen when used in poor condition.

And since I didn't have any farm storys the night of the last meeting, a farm story that relates to this:   I used to bomb the farm paths with my cousin on the atvs.  Like most kids, mud puddles were fun.  So we rode them all at first.  Became clear really early that we really made them MUCH larger and hold water for WAY longer than everything else.  Also became clear that we would get an a$$ beating if we kept doing it......

We did negotiate a non used area for our personal mud pit though.

Im going to wear an electronic  collar that shocks me everytime I cause damage to the trails while I ride. 

I must say that Lou has nailed it on the head with the education part. The more you know about not only trails, but peoples perception when using them, the better off you are. It's all about perception. Most of us have the same feelings about the trails and would agree almost 100%. However we all have different opinions on the same subject, therefor this discussion could go on and on.

I believe that humans are part of nature. You cannot control nature. Just look at the trails that erode due to their design. You cannot contol that and you will never be able to stop people from using the trails when conditions are what most would consider less than ideal. Now take into consideration how many users there are at Wiss! The trails are going to change no matter what because of this nature.

I think Chuck also made a good observation. Comparing how much impact the tread receives when conditions are good and bad by number of users that causes that said impact. That's a very good way to look at it.

I rode tonight. Yea that's right. It was awesome.

Obviously we need an approach including education and sustainable trails... But I would like to have trails than can handle some riders in the rain. At lot of the mud damage caused is horrendous, but some of it looks worse than what it is. Demo 1 right now is looking like it did that first month it was in, but I'm hoping it will rebound well, (though obviously it's going to need ongoing maintenance.)   No matter what we do the park will evolve over time.

Facing VG, if you head up the steep trail to the left, it takes a sharp left turn, about 100 yds up is a pretty rocky section. Stop and take a look there sometime. To the right and to the left you'll see a huge swath of the earth that just slid out; a giant mud slide. It took rocks, earth and trees with it. I don't know if it is as noticeable as it was years back, but I'm guessing it was about 5' deep and going up and down the hill side fall line as far as I could make out. There was no trail there, no bikers, no horses, no hikers, just forest, earth and rocks, and yet it still collapsed. I'm sure an underground stream was running through, and maybe a tree fell and started a chain reaction... But my point is that sometimes there is nothing you can do.

That same year one of the gravel roads on CH side was totally washed away, about 2' - 3' deep. It had probably been there a 100 years.

Lots of good discussion here. I'd agree that even with education and signage there will always be people who will say "that doesn't apply to me, I don't care." Hopefully they'll be the minority in the park.

I'd also like to add that although I think trail use education would be a great thing, I wouldn't like to see the Wissahickon become like some parks where there's a "if you leave tracks, you absolutely shouldn't be on the trail" rule, meaning the place has to be 100% dry. One park in particular, Shaeffer Farms (http://www.more-mtb.org/forum/showthread.php?t=1205) in Maryland, has pretty pretty strict rules/etiquette about riding in anything but dry conditions.

Trail Closure Information: Trail Closure Information: During the winter months DNR will close the gate except when trails are unusually dry. Do not ride when the gate is closed. You can be ticketed if riding when the gate is closed. No night riding is allowed except with special permission from the park. Call the Seneca Creek Trails hotline for current trail status 301-924-1998. DNR uses an honor system for all other months when the trails are closed for 24 hours after a heavy rain...

Please observe the following trail closure policies:

    * Do not ride for 24 hours after a soaking rain
    * Do not ride if trails are wet and muddy
    * Observe all gate closures

I think this is because to get the trails built, MORE had to assure the DNR that they would be well maintained and not turn into a rutted or eroded mess. Totally understandable, and it's their prerogative. They created the trails, they maintain them, they get to set the rules.

However, I don't think you can apply those rules to the Wissahickon. Number one, the drainage here is totally different. We all know that sometimes we can have a soaking rain and the trails will be dry the next day. We also know that most of the park can be dry yet you'll come across a muddy section (think the mud puddle by the golf course with that ancient plank of wood in it).

Education and signage, tailored to fit the distinct characteristics of the Wissahickon trails, would probably go a long way to helping sustain the trails. Blanket rules like "no riding 24 hours after rain", would probably just get ignored.

...my 2 cents

Agreed Repo. Something like would never work around here. That's why I started this board and I encourage everyone to give their trail conditions updates. Wiss trail conditions vary so greatly at all times.

Demo 1 is seeing some accelerated wear but that's because it is experiencing tread displacement before it really had a chance to compact, caused by the volume of users in our park. It's going to keep on happening on all the new trails that we cut. Although I must say the reroute we did at Livezey held up really well. I went back one time to tweak one spot where a horse print made a big hole in the new tread and also did some minor deberming.

Then maybe we need to do what DD suggested, and let the new trails sit for a long period before we open them. We learned from the upper trail at Gorgas that we can't be to hasty, but maybe we need to wait it out through a full growing season.

As far as education and signage, it runs akin to sex education. "Kids, we don't want you to have sex, but if you are going to have sex it's important you do so safely".

"Don't use the trails in rainy or wet conditions, or until the trails are completely dry. If you are riding during poor conditions stick to the Forbidden Trail. If you find yourself on the trail please stick to the center of the trail; ride or walk through mud puddles rather risk widening the trail. If in doubt, stay off the trails."

I believe the impact on the trails erosion is only going to increase in deterioration and become less sustainable over the next several years if every winter it becomes more common that it is over 65+ degrees, rather than having snowfall we have rainstorms, which are normally experienced in early spring.

Do you think that more riders go out and ride when its warm and rainy, were trail  damage sustained is elevated, or in the winter snow, when the trails have a bit less wear from tire tread because its frozen?.....

Trail Mongers to the rescue!

I think your theory is right on.  I'm sure it's better for the trails to be frozen longer than they have the last couple of years.  This time of year the warm weather is almost like a plague as it sucks for snowboarding too.  The 10 day forcast looks cold though so that should help.  Last year was my first winter in Philly but late Feb. and Mar. were definintely the worst months for cold and snow so maybe that trend will happen again and the trails will stay frozen. 

2/9 Pics:

Demo 1 by the sinkhole (http://www.flickr.com/photos/repoman/2251899999/in/set-72157603698085444/)

Not much on the tires.

Looking the other way (http://www.flickr.com/photos/repoman/2252697670/in/set-72157603698085444/)

That actually looks worse than it was. It was pretty hard, but it looks sloppy in the picture.

Overall the park was pretty solid. It wasn't rock hard, but it wasn't too soft.

By the way, when I'm there and taking shots, I usually email them straight to Flickr right after I take them with the phone. They go to the main page, not that Wissahickon set, but if you're looking for conditions, check the main page (http://www.flickr.com/photos/repoman/) between 8:30 and 10am on Saturday and Sunday. That's typically when I upload them. I'm usually out every weekend, conditions permitting, but don't take lack of pictures as "it's no good". Life and/or late nights sometime interfere with riding.  ;D

Yo Repo, thanks a lot man. THis really helps everyone! Good stuff.

Glad to be of service!

2/10 pics:

1 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/repoman/2255143426/in/set-72157603698085444/)
2 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/repoman/2254343891/in/set-72157603698085444/)

Monday should be great.

FYI -- This morning everything was frozen but by 11:30a things are thawing quickly and there are some really sloppy spots and general saturation of trails. Conditions are orange at best. I suspect it to get even worse soon, the sun is really melting things despite the ambient temp.

-pete

I went out pretty early this morning and by the end of the ride the roxborough side of the park was getting pretty sloppy.  I was really dissapointed to see so many deep ruts and tire marks on the trails.  I guess that it is going to be a never ending battle to keep people off the trails when they are too wet to ride.  What a shame!
nc

I agree, early today while it was frozen was good, but areas in the sun that had thawed were bad. Demo 2 was a muddy mess as it looked like it had cooked in the sun all morning. I could be wrong, but I think it probably won't be much better tomorrow.

Some pics:

Demo 1 Frozen (http://www.flickr.com/photos/repoman/2268424871/)
Demo 1, looking the other way (http://www.flickr.com/photos/repoman/2268903285/) - Treadmarks in the pic were frozen

Here's the bad:

New trail abused (http://www.flickr.com/photos/repoman/2269253810/) - Treadmarks were frozen
Bad ruts on the Walnut Lane/Tulpehocken side (http://www.flickr.com/photos/repoman/2268537145/) - Probably the worst mess I saw today. It was obvious from the erratic lines that whoever it was was slipping and sliding all over the place when they rode. The ruts were frozen this morning, but they were deep and ugly and all over that section.

2/19/2008

Trails are in decent shape. The few usual muddy spots but overall wetness was minimal. As long as there's no rain tommorow should be good conditions.

I was really surprised by few trails on the Indian side, specifically between Rex and VGI... There were many rocky fall line trails which were the wettest and muddiest of all! I don't get it. Fall line trial must drain the best, by definition and be the driest, yet they were the wettest?! What gives?

dz

Maybe that's where the water from other areas is draining to, and flowing down the fall lines?

-pete

Yeah that, plus I think its mostly water thats been trapped by freezing being released during melting.  And the chestunut side seems to get more of that because it gets more sun this time of year for the most part. 

Plus some of those trails have like natural springs/wet spots on or near them and we've had a bunch of rain lately.

Trails are: snowy...  ;D

Pic 1 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/repoman/2286112796/)

I was a little disappointed. I had hoped it would be frozen, but it was too warm I guess. It wasn't sloppy muddy under the snow, which was good, but in places the riding was a bit tricky as the tires were either cutting their own groove in fresh snow (http://www.flickr.com/photos/repoman/2286116140/in/photostream/) or falling into existing tracks, slot-car style.

Which can lead to an occasional dump (http://www.flickr.com/photos/repoman/2285448547/in/photostream/)... of course I had to fall directly on that big rock outcropping in the middle (on the downhill leading to the re-vamped area where the burned out Suburban was).

Tomorrow is iffy. It's supposed to get cold tonight, but tomorrow is supposed to be close to 40 and sunny. Early is probably key as they're calling for 35 by noon.

Hey if anyone rides today pleae post a trail conditions update...?  I doubt it will be good later today but wondering how it was this morning in the cold... if the trails are even rideable w/the snow and and ice.

Thanks!
-Steve

Rode most of the park on Thursday AM from 10-12..  it was totally frozen and fast for the first hour and 45 min.. the last 15 it was starting to get a little soft...   

Can't wait till spring!   In meantime Pray for nights in the 20's and get your ride done before noon or deal with the SLOP.

Hey i was wondering if anybody has any updates on wiss for today 3/9

my backyard is still looking soggy, though it's definitely better than it was earlier. But realistically I think the Wiss should wait until tomorrow.

Because I have a huge hill behind me and I'm close to the Wiss my yard is a good gauge as you can see tell how the moisture is draining off. But I haven't witnessed the trails first hand.

Sorry this is so late, but I rode from the pavillion north on the yellow to Wises Mill (short ride as I was with a friend on his first mtb ride!) and the trails were fair to good conditions.

Rode about 5PM today from the Monster all the way to the inn, and everything seemed pretty dry. A few wet spots, the usual random downed tree, and usually pretty muddy under areas of heavy leaves, but very doable today.

Rode last night, and really great (3/13). Only the usual (Indian Head side) water spots.

Trails are great right now. Dry except in the usual trouble spots. Pic on my main flickr page (not in wiss set yet).

edit:

Pic from demo 1 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/repoman/2335155496/)

Had some riders show up at my house today to go ride. I woke up late and when I saw it had rained I was skeptical. Shortly after gearing up the sun poked out and the trails turned out to be in good condition considering it rained last night. Wiss dries out fast once spring time is here and today was a good sample.

yeah went out with the dogs late evening and trails looked good.

Rode  Belmont yesterday, se slick spots here and there but overall fan-farkin-tastic. Gonna take a Wiss ride today about 6-6:30

Tuesday 12pm Trail Update.. Parked at Brunos and rode Monster to Demo 1 and then Indian back.. trails in good shape.. just a few puddles here and there.. otherwise fast.   

Get out and hit it before the rain comes..!

Trails were great today... who knows what this snow they're calling for is going to do (hopefully nothing).

Pic (http://www.flickr.com/photos/repoman/2349093239/)

Nice Repo. I love the pics. Today was sweet.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                           

Awesome ride today dudes.....   ;D   Coyle trail is flowing awesome!   Other side of Lincoln is getting real good too.. some nice sections...especially that last chute at the end down to Ridge Ave..!   

See you out there this weekend!     

Fish

Trails were good today with just a few puddles in the usual spots. Overall it was firm.

Pic (http://www.flickr.com/photos/repoman/2407028635/)

That's Good news!

 ;D

The wiss is awesome. We just got back from riding in Fruita, Grand Junction, and Kokapelli for 5 days, and had an awesome ride, right here in Wiss. Life is good!

Did an early AM ride this morning and conditions are outstanding. A little tacky in some spots with a few slippery roots. This is perfect riding weather!!!!!!!!!!!

I totally agree Tom. While Fruita is amazing riding by all means and definitions, it has nothing on the WISS! This is some of the best riding in the world. Yea that's right I said it!!!!

The trails were sweet today, but kind of gross in a couple places. Warning, disgusting descriptions follow...

First, here's a thank you to the considerate dog owner who left the pile of diarrhea right in the middle of the trail which proceeded to end up all over my bike... tires, downtube, front and rear derailleurs, rear shock, chainstays, seat... you name it. My buddies made me ride in the back of the group for the rest of the day because even after trying to get it clean, it was still leaving a stench cloud in my wake. So thanks for that. Say hi to karma for me when you step out in your backyard in your barefeet and a pile of it squishes through your toes.

The most disgusting thing today, though, was the remains of a deer right on the middle of the trail leading up to Demo 2. The first thing we came up was the pelvis and leg bones, splayed right across the trail like a warning. A warning of the worst to come: the head and full spine of the deer spread across the trail about 20 feet further. Man, it was barftastic. We took a really long stick and dragged it all off the trail. It was pretty unpleasant.

Oh man, that is heinous. Hope you can get the bike cleaned up. I know I've had dog sh!t in my tyres, on numerous occasions (my bike seeks this stuff out for whatever reason), and despite the most rigorous scrubbing, that distinctive aroma just seems to hang around.

In any case, I am glad I decided to ride the east side of the park today! That deer story sounds like something out of Predator  :o

What a painful read. Dog shit happens to all of us sooner or later, but the deer carcus is pretty crazy. Rode on the east side today as well. Trails are mint.
Tacky and fast.
Good times.

Holy crap I saw the deer carcus too!  I pretty much rode by it as quickly as possible and didnt stop as the smell was pretty bad.  I was going to stop and move it but then I thought to myself 'you are here early and by yourself, whatever did that to that carcus, its around in the park somewhere'.  that thought got me moving again pretty quickly.  didn spy the 'rhea though, thankfully.

I have the next two days off, cant wait to ride the next two mornings.

That's funny about the carcus. I saw (actually smelled it first) on 7am Friday morning. Thought I'd leave it there to see if it would generate some chatter on here.........The ground hogs, possums, racoons and all nocturnal things picked it dry!!! Figured a car hit it up on Henry Ave and it rolled over the bank.............So much for the deer cull

that's a pretty gross read Repoman, that's just uncool that someone let their dog crap & not curb it. Similarly, I have some issues w/horses dropping loads in the middle of trails & nobody cleans it up. I used to not care untill last year when I was riding w/someone out there & the guy couldn't avoid a loaf. His tires flung horse crap behind him & onto me while I was just getting my camelbak straw into my mouth. I was practically hurling or dry heaving the next 4 sections on the trail..nasty!
 
I saw that deer too after my ride w/LC.. I didn't smell anything when I went through at the time though or maybe I did & thought it was my own?   

It tastes disgusting!!!


 :-X